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Subject:Kinkozan signature - Sobei VI or VII?
Posted By: Steve Fri, Dec 28, 2012 IP: 50.32.39.77

In a previous query (linked below), Bill H translated this signature as:

""Imperial Japan, Kyoto, Made by Kinkozan" (Dai Nippon, Kyoto, Kinkozan Zo). Kinkozan was a well known studio operating in Kyoto during the late Meiji period (1868-1912). "

Through a family member, her friend Takechi Manabu, a Japanese translator with an interest in ceramics, sent me this reply:

"the signature explains as follows:

大日本京都錦光山造

Made by Dainihon Kyoto Kinkōzan

Note: 薩摩焼には、鹿児島の薩摩と京薩摩があり、これは京薩摩。おそらく6代錦光山のもの。

There are two types of Satsuma ware, one made in Kagoshima and the other in Kyoto, known as Kyo-Satsuma-yaki. This seems to be the work of the sixth-generation Kinkōzan.

《参考》
錦光山(6代) きんこうざん

Sixth-generation Kinkōzan
1823-1884 江戸後期-明治時代の陶工。

late Edo-period-Meiji era potter, 1823-1884.
文政6年生まれ。家業の京都粟田焼(あわたやき)窯元をつぎ,小林の姓を錦光山とあらためる。青木木米(もくべい)から磁器の製法をまなぶ。維新のころ9代帯山(たいざん)与兵衛らとともに磁器の輸出をはじめ,京都の陶磁器輸出の端緒をひらいた。明治17年1月死去。62歳。名は宗兵衛。

He inherited a Kyoto Awata ware kiln passed down in his family and changed his name from Kobayashi to Kinkōzan. Learned porcelain making from Aoki Mokubei. Around the time of the Meiji Restoration (1868), he began exporting ceramics along with ninth-generation Taizan Yōhei and others and was a pioneer in the export of Kyoto ceramics. Artistic name Sōbei."

Since it's very relevant to the nature and value of the piece, I'm curious as to who agrees with whom. I have one opinion thinking Kinkozan Sobei VI, and another thinking Kinkozan Sobei VII.

Opinions?




Link :Previous post


Subject:Re: Kinkozan signature - Sobei VI or VII?
Posted By: Bill H Mon, Dec 31, 2012

James Lord Bowes includes two identical Kinkozan marks on page 141 of his book, "Japanese Marks and Seals in Literature and the Arts". One is on a flower pot, and the other is what the good Lord Bowes describes as "...a vase of modern faience decorated with cloisonne enamel...." (which I take to mean in the Shippo style). In any event, since the Bowes book was first published in 1882, I believe your identification is at hand in the information you cite herewith.

No criticism of your family member's Japanese friend is intended, but I should point out that "Dainihon" and "Dai Nippon" are the same thing with different slants on transcription and both mean "Imperial Japan" under the Meiji emperor's rule. My original translation of the mark was intended to give those unfamiliar with the language a feel for where the Japanese characters and English words mesh. However, as is the case with its Chinese underpinnings, many Japanese phrases must be read backwards to make the best sense in English. So if you want a really proper version of this mark, it would be "Made by Kinkozan at Kyoto in Imperial Japan".

Best regards,

Bill H.

Subject:Re: Kinkozan signature - Sobei VI or VII?
Posted By: Bill H Sat, Jan 12, 2013

For Steve and others with an interest in seeing what the Kinkozan mark looked like through the eyes of James Lord Bowes, please see the link below. If the live link doesn't work, perhaps it can be pasted into your browser window from here:

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31822011965142#page/140/mode/1up

Best regards,

Bill H.

URL Title :KinkozanMark


Subject:Re: Kinkozan signature - Sobei VI or VII?
Posted By: Steve Sun, Jan 13, 2013

I found the same e-book scan yesterday, and grabbed a screen shot of the mark. What I don't get is the character at the top of the right column on my mark, which doesn't appear on any other Kinkozan marks I could find.

First photo, make on my vase, second photo, mark from Lord Bowes' 1882 book.





Subject:Re: Kinkozan signature - Sobei VI or VII?
Posted By: Bill H Mon, Jan 14, 2013

Herewith three examples of the mark with "Dai" before Nippon.

Bill H.

http://www.trocadero.com/aaantiquesarts/items/1177709/item1177709.html

http://www.trocadero.com/aaantiquesarts/items/1075364/en12.html

http://www.trocadero.com/japaneseartsite/items/818868/item818868.html

Subject:Re: Kinkozan signature - Sobei VI or VII?
Posted By: Steve Tue, Jan 15, 2013

Thanks for the links, Bill.

Now that I've been able to review a good number of Kinkozan signatures, this one does seem to date 1870's - 1880.

However, I haven't found another signature in this "seal style" in gilt over red rectangle anywhere, just a short reference to one at the Gothborg site.

Is there any significance to the signature being so elaborate as compared to most of those seen?

The only other note of significance I could find that relates to this vase was another 1880's book which said that Kinkozan was noted for introducing red, "grass green" and aquamarine enamels, all three of which feature prominently in the dancing figures on both panels.

Subject:Re: Kinkozan signature - Sobei VI or VII?
Posted By: Jessica Sun, Jul 14, 2013

Hello,
Does anyone know anything about this Kinkozan Mark? See attached photos. Vase is Flat Black with glossy red and blue decorations.



Subject:Re: Kinkozan signature - Sobei VI or VII?
Posted By: Verna Tue, Jan 10, 2017

Were you able to locate anything on the Kinkozan vase you posted?

Thank you.

Subject:Re: Kinkozan signature - Sobei VI or VII?
Posted By: Jessica Johnson Sat, Jun 06, 2020

No- unfortunately it has been seven years since I asked my question without anyone answering.

Subject:Re: Kinkozan signature - Sobei VI or VII?
Posted By: Eleanor Caputo Fri, Jun 05, 2020

I have a matching set of dark orange vases with beautiful blue poppies I believe they're about 10 in tall with this Potter's mark on the bottom for kinkozan. I can't find these vases anywhere and was wondering if anybody found out any more information on that Potter's mark. Thanks for any information





Subject:Re: Kinkozan signature - Sobei VI or VII?
Posted By: Martin Michels Sun, Jun 07, 2020

"Made in Japan" became mandatory from 1921, U.S. Customs required country names to be in English, and the word “Japan” was used instead of Nippon.
After the dead of Kinkozan Sobei 7th in 1927 the factory stopped.
So your vases can be dated 1921-1927.
Regards,
Martin.

Subject:Re: Kinkozan signature - Sobei VI or VII?
Posted By: Eleanor Caputo Mon, Jun 08, 2020

Thank you so much for your information. I appreciate your fast response. I thought it was a Roman numeral 40. Thank you for the correction.

Subject:Re: Kinkozan signature - Sobei VI or VII?
Posted By: Bill H Sun, Jun 07, 2020

It seems not to have been repeated here, but such marks with 'Made in Japan" added are generally believed not to have been enforced until after 1919. The U.S. law requiring the wording "Made in" was passed in 1914 but not implemented until World War I ended. Whether any vestige of the original Kinkozan studio remained with the firm at this time is unknown to me.

By this time, Japan was involved heavily in adventures against China, including installation of the dethroned last Qing emperor Xuantong (Puyi) as leader of puppet state in Manchuria and a military buildup leading up to its 1936 invasion of China and link-up with the European Axis powers in World War II. It is my understanding that the switch to wartime production came at the expense of quality in porcelains as many ceramics factories switched to making military items, including bombsights.

Best regards,

Bill H.


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