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A think modern scolarship is having a laugh when you see written that the Babylonians were the first diviners. The I Ching was in it's 3rd written edition by 1200 BC.

Statements like the first recorded astronomic events 2000 BC.

Just show any scholar in the World a pig dragon jade, pi disk, cong , pottery of pre 4th millenium and there is the answer.

If they would like to discuss that then just drop in plastrons at 6000 BC.

The worst yet is someone connecting the constellation Draco as Egyptian which then influences Cambodia, Angkor Wat.

There having a laugh.

Triagram layout to an eight petalled flower of Babylon.

I feel better now.

Yours

Happy

Modern scholarship is only just catching up with the 19th scholars regarding the dating of the Hsia and Shang dynasties.

They were correct back then.

Fu Hsi and Nukwa (Nagas, snake people).

So was Fu Hao.

If this jade figure related to astronomy of some sort? The paterns on the back are regular but quite original! The forward siting position is also quite interesting...

Hi Pascal

Your jade has certain decorative features of the standing figure of the culture 13th - 10 th century BC. The elongated oval. If the human figure is on snake form then it's depicting Fu Hia. The spiral volute ears also feature on bronzes of the period as such. The symetrical spiral are just yin/yang. If you look at the overall design on the back, its a pair of wings. See Shanddong cave rubbings of the later Han period and how they depicted Fu Hia and Nu Kwa (snakes with wings.) Quite interesting in an old copy of the China journal a phto was sent in of Fu Hia and Nu Kwa. If you were to extend the above jade with a triangular handle then quite similar but the two in the China journal was of some antiquity. Fu Hsi is shown upright with Nu Kwa sat in a similar position to your jade.

Although your jade has ancient characteristics to the decoration I have reservations. Just look at Ebay.

It's not astronomical, it's a representation of the Emperor Fu Hsi, the original owner of my dragon jade. They were Naga's, snake people.

The sky is shown in the picture at 2953 BC. Thuban is the third star from the end. Blue cross North Pole. You can see from the jade on it's side that one of the constellations recorded in the design of the jade and also a Mansion is Corona Borealis. You see arch featuer of bronze vessels of elephant trunk form, tripod type. The constellation which messes everything up is Vulpeca. These stars form the points of the upper horns and by 2000 BC off they go. If you continue in a NW direction this is where Aquilla appears. The program is set up for 7th day, 7th Lunar month.
The Milky Way is crossed. I set up a stellarium for the event occuring this year. The graphics are quite good I will see if I can get a decent screen shot and post it.

Nick

Thanks for the explainations! Look pretty complexe! But chinese history is that complexe!
Don't worry for this jade, it is not a copy made of bad soap stone... It is really red jade, but not sure of it's origin in any case! Most of my small collection of jade is really antique, but huge pieces like this make me wonder... Mr. Lee often say, that ALL jade are made from small jades pebbles found in river... Since i am in china, i really wonder about this affirmation, since even in show room, they display quite huge pieces of jade, even before and during the Ming dy. Also, jades are not supposed to be related to today use items... Why, i have seen, jade spoons, jade cup with gold, jade candleholder, jade belt, ect... Even jade pieces of over 30cm longue, perfectly white have been found from the Ming dy... I believe while these pieces can look suspicious, we cannot hold the books on jade as a omniscient ressources of chinese culture! You prove yourself, that history have to be rewrite to take more accurate accounts of the chinese history! Even in 1300A.D chinese did have in their possesion the map of the new world, and then Zheng He fleet and on... When China will take her place in the lead of the most powerful economy in the world, the face of western history will shake and tremble a lot!!

Thanks again, you are very ressourceful!!

Pascal

Hello again,
I take the opportunity to post some pics from some of the item found in tombs of Ming dy emperors... Of course, some will say it was gift for the emperors, so only emperors should have these... But i am not convince of this at all...
Best,

Pascal

To my understanding, the only Ming Emperor's tomb to have been excavated was that of Wanli's and the rest have not been opened or have been robbed. So where does that leave your pieces?

You should go to Beijing!! All the Ming tombs are there, and this exhibition was there too!! I can forward you many photos of this place, they not only have jades, but armors, and cloths... Very interesting!

Further picture.

This picture is for this coming 7th day of the 7th Lunar month. The viewpoint is from Chang-ngan still. 5000 years of pression. If you look from Vega in a SW direction you see Aquilla (the ox-herder). This picture shows the Milky Way, and as you can see the weaving girl (lyrae) is in opposition. At Horizon view you would just see Aquilla coming into view. Hence the Kiss.

Its a wonderful story. Thankfully it ws passed down. It's about the only one and is one of the oldest myth's. The lozenge appears on pig dragons of the 5th millenium BC.

Some Hongshan jades are massive. See the link I posted early. The fox/pig mask is 10.5 inches.

The link is to the Niuhelang culture. Few burial jades but some quite large and I have seen the same colour nephrite as the dragon jade.

The Kansas City Museum Book was an eye opener.
The jades from this culture are superb and date 4500 - 2920.

Ah! It was your family that got the contents of Qian Long and Tsu Hsi tomb's.

Very beautiful. The white jade is Burmese. Is it not? Bit harder than nephrite, about 7 on the Mho's scale.

History is going to have to realise quite soon really that Chinese culture from great antiquity has had a far greater impct than at present realised. Which is not the West fault. You should not have shut yourself's off.

I could always set up a factory in China producing calander's and copies of a jade. Lots of picture's for books.
Astronomy, Feng Shui, dragons, Buddhism, Linear B, Freemasonry. Every book on Chinese art or history(Korea, Japan, Se Asia, China towns all over the world.

I plan to travel to China at some point in the near future. I want to go and have a look at certain bronze Kuang and bring the jade with me.

And Mirror. I'll take it to the temple of Heaven.

Bye for now.

Nick

The point about the triangular handle to the jades in the China Journal (I'll post). Heaven and Earth with Man in between.

njg

From:

The Last Empress, The She-Dragon of China
Author: Keith Laidler
Publisher: Wiley
ISBN: 0-470-84880-4

The Postscript

Nineteen years after Yehonala (Tsu Hsi) had been laid to rest in her vault with such pomp and ritual, a huge explosion echoed through the pine clad valley of the Eastern tombs, shattering the sombre silence of her mausoleum.
The gateway to the "Jewelled Chambers" of the Emperors had been dynaminted by desperate men intent on plunder, and Chinese grave robbers crawled through the shattered entrance to despoil the sarcophagi of those who had once held the Mandate of Heaven (1). The Emperor Ch'ien Lung's body was desecrated and dismembered, along with his wives. Yehonala's tomb was ransacked, the coffin violated, and all it's priceless gold, jade and jewelled treasures taken. The sacred Tolo pall was ripped from the corpse and the pearl encrusted, cloth of gold vestments torn away, leaving the pitiful cadaver naked to the waist, her undergarments hal removed. The eartly remains of Yehonala, once the most powerful female ruler on Earth, were dumped unceremoniously on the floor of the tomb, face down, her sunken eyes staring sightlessly at the dark earth of the middle kingdom.

1. MacAleavy, A Dream of Tartary p.186 quoting commission of enquiry report.

good!my english is very bad!



URL Title :http://www.517cn.com

I maintain that all pre 18th century nephrite used comes from pebbles and boulders found in and around the vicinity of khotan and Western China, and although blades as large at 24 inches (60 cm) exist from as early as the 3rd millenium BCE, this does not negate this contention. Jade in the the pre 18th century eras was a limited material - limited by the size of the stones found and transported and though large boulders were found - I have a feeling in the Ming they were cut down on-site into more manageable sections prior to transport east. Note the grave goods you have posted - one plate of approx. 16 inch (40 cm) diameter at most. The rest of the pieces - small and compact. The court blades of uneven tone and showing gradation of colour as they approach the exterior of the boulder form. Compare with a Qianlong period ruyi sceptre or opther long object made from mined jade - clear even colour the whole length of the item.

As to the seated figure, I do not believe this is an archaic piece, the finish is far too clean and although copying the general style of Shang and Western Zhou jade figurines, the carving ofthe designs on the back and the hair treatment are too deep to be correct. I fear this is a modern reproduction. Compare with one of the earliest found archaeological examples of this style from the Fu Hao tomb. Shang dynasty

Anthony M. Lee
Asian Art Research

Ivory beaker, the design is starting to change, here the elephant is horned.

Pics and I'm putting a couple more pictures on the post above, this one's getting a bit long. The other pics are more to do with astronomy.

All the Ho Thu and Lo Shu, Fu Hsi saw his on the back of the HALF DRAGON HALF PHONENIX rising from the river HO. The Milky Way was in antiquity though to be a river.
Flat Earth supported by the Gushien spirit rivers connected Heaven and Earth.

The split tail handle to the kneeling jade.

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