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Subject:Help In Identifying Sake Bottle Pottery Type
Posted By: Paul Sun, Dec 12, 2010 IP: 75.92.60.24

I have had this piece for quite some time. It has raised decoration in which color has been applied and a silver rim to the inside. I'm trying to identify the pottery style and possible age.







Subject:Re: Help In Identifying Sake Bottle Pottery Type
Posted By: Bill H Mon, Dec 13, 2010

In its enamel colors, pattern. form and silver liner, it resembles sake bottles (tokkuri) produced circa 1900 under the 'Eiraku' (kanji meaning of 'eternal bliss') mark. These wares have been copied, so if there's a mark you might wish to show an image of it for verification.
Best regards,


Bill H.

Subject:Re: Help In Identifying Sake Bottle Pottery Type
Posted By: Cal Sun, Dec 12, 2010

You do not show bottom of bottle, could be porcelain or stoneware.

Decoration slightly inspired by Chinese 'fahua' style which started several centuries ago to emulate some admired Middle Eastern products.

Good luck,
Cal

Subject:Re: Help In Identifying Sake Bottle Pottery Type
Posted By: Paul Mon, Dec 13, 2010

Hey Cal thanks for the info. Here's the picture of the base. Stoneware for sure.



Subject:Re: Help In Identifying Sake Bottle Pottery Type
Posted By: Bill H Mon, Dec 13, 2010

I can't make out anything resembling the Eiraku mark in the image, but it could be a matter of lighting. The standard characters are as shown below.
Best regards,
Bill H.



Subject:Re: Help In Identifying Sake Bottle Pottery Type
Posted By: Bill H Tue, Dec 14, 2010

After staring at your image of the mark again from a few steps further back I believe it may be 'Shiwan', the Chinese kiln center in the Guangzhou suburb of Foshan. If I'm correct about the mark, this would be one of the modern copies of Eiraku ware. The characters for Shiwan are pasted below.

Best regards,

Bill H.



Subject:Re: Help In Identifying Sake Bottle Pottery Type
Posted By: Paul Mon, Dec 13, 2010

Well thanks to Cal I found the answer. The bottle is part of a set of silver lined sake vessels. below is a link to the similar ones. But I believe mine is actually older then the ones pictured, or at least better quality.

Subject:Re: Help In Identifying Sake Bottle Pottery Type
Posted By: Arjan Mon, Dec 13, 2010

Hi Paul,

I agree with Cal this looks like Fahua but it don't have the feeling it's (very) old.
Fahua was probably first made in Yuan dynastie. As Cal allready mentioned it can be stoneware (northern Fahua) or porcelain (Southern Fahua)The stoneware examples were first covered with a white slip layer. They made vases, jars and seats (bigger ware during Ming and smaller during Qing) but also figurines. Typical( for jars,vases etc) are the raised slip lines which gives it a kind of ceramic cloisonn� appearance. Typical used colors are; blue, turquoise, purple, green, yellow. Your vase have three of those typical colors but they looks a bit off and the total appearance "looks new" to me.

Cal: I was very happy that you regonized the style. The reason you can see on the pictures I enclose. I have this figurine of Han Xian Zi (one of the eight immortals) That I have about 2 years now and I couldn't find consensus of what it really is. (I'm not sure I posted it before on this site) My own feeling is that it is an old piece (could be Ming) and it could be Northern Fahua (its stoneware with a white slip layer, wich bleeded through the crackles)The (damaged)piece feels soft/satin-like inside and gives a (the) typical smell when wetted. There is not much to find inside (maybe cleaned) but I could find some small parts that looks like small(dust?) spiderwebs and one atached small plantroot which make me think it it's a burialpiece. I have a few opinions of people who think it is Ming but also others who have no idea or think it's later and -till now- nobody who agree this is Fahua. I apriciate your (and other of corse)opinion about it.

Regards,

Arjan







Subject:Re: Help In Identifying Sake Bottle Pottery Type
Posted By: Cal Tue, Dec 14, 2010

Arjan, I have not seen figures decorated in fahua style. Yours does not look 'fahua' type to me, which imitated what now called champlev� enamel. Fahua style has usually raised outlines of floral and other motif filled in with enamel, sometimes just applied sprigs colored with enamel, all on solid color ground.

Your figurine remind of Shekwan pottery, but I can not identify from own knowledge.

Good luck,
Cal

Subject:Re: Help In Identifying Sake Bottle Pottery Type
Posted By: Arjan Tue, Dec 14, 2010

Hello Cal,

Thanks for taking a look at my figure. It still stays a mistery . On the figurines they made they didn't used that raised line technic. Herewith some (bad) pictures from some Fahua figurines of the Shanxi museum in Taiyuan, just to give you an idea how these Fahua figurines looked like.
Beside what it is, would you dare to give you're opinion about a possible age?







Subject:Re: Help In Identifying Sake Bottle Pottery Type
Posted By: Cal Wed, Dec 15, 2010

Arjan,

Thank you for interesting photos.

I say not familiar your figurine type, you ask can I date it anyway? Make me laughing, remind of when friend said "given what we don't know about this, what do you think?"

I have no information for offer opinion. I only smile and wonder.

Good luck,
Cal

Subject:Re: Help In Identifying Sake Bottle Pottery Type
Posted By: Arjan Thu, Dec 16, 2010

Hi Cal,

You right.... just a desperate attempt from me.
Thanks and regards,

Arjan


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