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I've been looking recently Chicochai website.
Good website design, very funny collection of large fake made of low quality jade (is that even jade?). A modern good quality nephrite or Hetian jade would be more expensive than these so called "antiques".
I'll suggest anybody who buys jade from them to contact serious antique dealers around them ask for their opinion.
I believe it is not legal to sale fake antiques in Canada...

Regards

Dear Moderator:

If it is not all right to encourage anybody to buy any jades from any sources. Will it be all right to discourage people from buying jades from another dealer especially if the poster himself does not identify himself and is indeed a dealer in jades himself (or herself). This dealer had posted three different messages using two different identifies in both the message board (1) and at the forum (2). Just being curious. No disrespect intended.

B

Sadly, it would seem that some of the members who made the Chicochai forum such an enlightening experience are expanding their territory & bringing their pseudo science, (which I can put up with at a pinch) & personal vitriol, (which I can`t abide.) to this forum.

My visits here become fewer & fewer whilst this Hongshan nonsense continues & it might be time to think of having more proactive moderation.

Phil.

Unlike some forum members, I find this HSJ discussion rather educational and helpful, as it warns and reminds us of the very good and sophisticated fakes that are produced in China. Sadly it is not limited just to jade, but also porcelain, pottery, furniture,bronze.To distinguish the fakes,one has to be up to date with the new fakes and faking techniques, which continues to evolve every month. Would be nice if this fake discussion not just cover jade but also pottery, bronze and porcelain as it would be very helpful to all forum members. Anita you have very good knowledge of the various types of fakes in China and we are learning a lot from you, thanks. Regards, Larry.

Faker calling each other "fake!" is simple marketing strategy.

Since you are selling calcified grey chalcedony as authentic Hongshan bear head, calling sand blasted Brazilian yellow jasper Chulong as jade, cracked opaque chalcedony carved as Hongshan creepy falcon selling as jade.

Calcified nephrite is very different from the things you sell.

What is "Jade" in your term really mean?

Tang, Ming, Qing jades with modern tool marks. I can see the trails of one-way rotating screw marks in the ears of animal figurines.

Especially the cat scratch-like Qing snuff bottle. ..omg…I can use my cooking knife carve it far more better than that.

You have a brand new glazed stoneware jar, with 2nd firing enamel process, it has engraved Jin Dynasty tiger on it claimed as "Xia". Does Xia have technology of Enamel firing?

Have fun.

Anita Mui

Dear Pipane

Someone try to turn this webboard to their private playground, and they are so dumb, they have no idea that people here is not so easy that you will spin their heads around.

Your products are another type of replica. Non-acid treatment, no rashes, but carved from old stones, and not true jade.

If you need more serpentine and BC jade products like Chico, you can contact the supplier, skylink museum.

Dear Phil
I was from Chico too, but I acted against their theories as well as their fake jades...that's why I am here.

Til now I have no idea of Bill's intention, since someone can use proxy to hide their ip, and can put any free email address. I do not know "who is who" anymore. But I only speak the truth, and what I see.

Have fun
Anita Mui

Hello Anita,

Neolithic jades are all type of local remarquable stones that people would use to make ornement, therefore "Jade" stands for various type of stone: it includes agate, cornaline, nephrite, jaspes, even turkoise...when speak of modern jade, jade is only for nephrite or Hetian Jade.

You are a very good expert in many fields of expertise,unfortunetly I have only two fields of expertise ancient glass and HS jades.

You are perfectly right about the Jin jar it has nothing to do with Xia period my mistake.

The owner is a reputable antique dealer specialized in ceramics, he has 30 years experience, an impressive collection of Song and yuan Dy. ceramics that he started collect in the 80' at a time there where no fake on the market. His expertise is extensive because he has seen lots of good stuff and he has seen also fakes reach the market one by one. He has been interviewed on China national TV CCTV. A Japanese revue writed an article quoting him.
This piece is somehow very "Kaimen", means obviously authentic beside picture poor quality.


Regards,

Pipane

Hello Anita,

concerning the jade eagle I do not agree with you and I want to take position for pipane. The jade eagle in question, for me, is almost 100% a authentic HS artifact. Surface whitening, cracks and fissures, form and style, are all genuine HS. The white oxidation layer is from age as well as the straight crack that goes from head to toe. Recent jade carvings from old jade looks very different. The jade eagle shows all signs of great age and is at least 2500 years old.

Diasai

Hello Pipane
I doubt anyone had the money to start collecting in the 80s and even then there are plenty of fakes on the market.

Plus the only time when you cound be sure to collect at a time there where no fake on the market was during the cultural revolution when thugs rushed into somebody's home.(actually it was stealing)

So please no BS here...

Dear Diasai

What is the material you think that eagle made of? Calcified nephrite is not that plastic-like shiny.

The cracks are already in the stone, the figurine was carved later.

Pls notice:

1)Chip, there are 4 lines on the surface. It is not natural, it was cut by electric tool.

2)trail of sharp and quick cut by modern lapidary tool.

3)The raised line on the left side of the figurine was carved to avoid the carcks of the stone, 2 lines of both sides are not identical and balance which is unusual to say that the figurine was made before the cracks, chips and corrosion.

Pls look carefully before you assume that it is 2500 yrs old made.

Have fun.
Anita Mui

Anita,

You mentioned upfront you were working with Chicochai website in the past, a website that sales low quality jade reproduction as antiques but sales no antique.

You present us here your study on thoses jades but may I ask you what do you know about antique jades anyway? Have you ever seen any? Have you ever seen HS jades? where?
Do you know more about tooling and machining as you suggest? do you have experience in grinding or polishing tools or faking methods to make such comments?
What do you know exactly about geology and mineralogy? the 3 items you picked up from our website (with no agreement, thank you Anita) are made of very different types of stone (jades). They don't even look alike (!)

I just mean it was nice giving us your opinion about those jades, but I am afraid your points are groundless.

This is 100% certified antique jade pieces and again, VERY OBVIOUS HS jade.

If you want to double check any item posted on our site I invite you contact any reputable expert to review for you. except if you pick up a chicochai website expert ;) Thanks!

Dear Pipane

I do not learn any fraud theories from those fake dealers, I was there because I found no where to talk about jades, I found out from the begining that they are group of people who are trying to make fake to be real, and products are from the same supplier. If you read my posts there you will know that I acted against their products and then was banned to post there.

Looking at your stuffs are nothing interesting but stones with no beauty at all!

Hongshan jade is famous because of its supurb material and carving, what about your thingy? supurb carving? material? You think that how much time Hongshan clan have to spend their time in cold winter to carve your things, "5 minutes"?

I may not personally touch excavated Hongshan pieces in the museums, but HK private collectors who are selling HK$ +1 million / piece to other collectors without any doubt of authenticity, I know a lot.

Pls explain what I have picked from your jade eagle, what the marks are from? what kind of ancient tools?, and why the chips have 4 lines what kind of mother nature made that, and triangle like fast cut surface from the piece? intentionally? accidently?

Have fun
Anita Mui

Hello Anita,

Sorry for my late reply, I was some kind of busy lately...

I would be happy to explain it to you but I am afraid you won't understand. I don't care you like it or not; I am just saying it is real (and I believe it is quite amazing stuff).
Never the less you might prefer Ebay or chicochai items design, it is OK (and cheaper, lucky you). But that's not the point.
Instead of arguing with you I'll show you something that might (or might not) interest you:
here is two pîctures, same item, first pic is when I bought it; second is 3 years later...

I am not you sure you understand my point but I can tell the upfront HS jade bird is made of green nephrite, only the surface is white: it is called "Baojiang" (and again it can't be faken). The green bottom corner already let light goes throught...

P.S.:I would be very pleased to get to know your friendS (!), passion is the only thing that drive me...ask them to contact me if they (!) feel like it.

Special gift for you: another HS jade, exactly same jade type as the bird, same "Baojiang"... If you can source such item I am interested...

Regards,

Pipane
Pipane Asian Art Gallery

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