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It is extremely unfortunate that many jade collectors including many western jade experts who regularly participate in this forum believe there is a large supply of nephrite readily available in China. Based on this theory therefore they believe it is very easy to find nephrite inside China to make large quantity of Hongshan fakes in nephrite. Furthermore, they believe it is not expensive or difficult to find large size of nephrite (more than 1 kg) to carve large Hongshan fakes.

One expert even told me about Xiu Yan in Liaoning, China and posted a picture in which a large mountain of "nephrite rocks" was piled up outside the factory in Xiu Yan. He used that as an example in ridiculing my stupidity in believing that nephrite is "scarce" in the current China. He did not realize that those piled-up rocks are serpentine rocks.

Furthermore, another well known jade expert who had published a jade book also posted a recent thread in this forum:

http://www.asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=26894

In the first part of his message he claimed that because nephrite was so scarce in the ancient Hongshan era, therefore he concluded that:

“The necessity for large amounts of raw material, brought the need to carve idols from other materials than nephrite and in my general evaluation, I estimate that 98% of the Hong Shan carvings are made from bowenite, or other hardstones."

Yet in the same message, he also made the conclusion that:

"“Liaoning province is well known for the existence of nephrite in large quantity. In 1960, the largest nephrite carving of Buddha, was carved in AnShan, Manchuria from a nephrite boulder measuring 7.96 m X 6.88 m. X 4.10 m. This boulder was discovered in the town of XiuYan that is nearby AnShan. The Manchurian nephrite is dark green with dark veins and brownish-black inclusions.”

However, if one will bother to research the Chinese geography one should easily find that Chaoyan, where one of the largest Hongshan site was found, was not too far away (northwest of) from Xiu Yan (or Anshan where the largest jade boulder was found). (see pic 1 for map of Liaoning).

Therefore it sounds funny that if there is a large supply of nephrite readily available in Liaoning where it is the province where Hongshan site was found according to this jade expert but yet most of the authentic Hongshan jades were carved in serpentine.

I believe such regrettable misconception of so many western jade collectors/experts are due to the fact that they cannot read Chinese literatures and that there are not too many English literatures readily available to describe facts regarding Hongshan jades and Xiu Yan jades. Even many Chinese people reside in China truly believe that Xiu Yan jade (or Xiu Yu) are truly "jade".

If one can read Chinese, then it will be easier to find out from the jade books of many Hongshan jade experts that it is true that during the Hongshan era high quality nephrite resembles that of Hetian jades (mined in Khotan, XinJian, China) were indeed available and were used to carve many authentic Hongshan jades. In the same token, there were also rocks made of both nephrite and serpentine and high quality serpentine (bowenite) were found and used for carving of Hongshan jade artifacts. However, just like anywhere in the world, after a few thousand years of continued use of these nephrite jades, the main supplies were soon exhausted and today mostly serpentine jades are available in Xiu Yan, Liaoning, China. Many Chinese Hongshan jade experts call the original nephrite jades used to carve Hongshan jades "Old Xiu Yu" and the serpentine jades available today "New Xiu Yu". Due to the scarcity of such nephrite materials, many Hongshan experts were debating whether any Hongshan pieces made of high quality nephrite jades could be authentic because they couldn't figure out how in the world such nephrite materials could be transported all the way from Xinjiang or somewhere far away. Fortunately, not too long ago, several professors in China did a study and collected jade samples from 11 different sites in areas consists of the ancient Hongshan area and they did indeed find similar nephrite jade materials. However, such nephrite are not available in large quantities or in large sizes. Today, almost most nephrite used for modern nephrite jade carvings in China are imported from Canada, New Zealand, Taiwan, Korea, Russia or even U.S.A. (Caolifornia). The imported amount is extremely minimal comparing with that of jadeite. I actually did a lot of researches on this subject and confirmed with one large nephrite supplier in U.S. that we did indeed export nephrite to the Chinese.

First please look at this jade boulder shown at the Xiu Yan jade mine:

http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11100987/Xiuyan_Jade_Mine.html

What do you think it is made of?

Now look at the description of Xiu Yan jade (Xiu Yu):

http://www.hb1366.com/zgwdyz_e.htm

"Xiuyan jade:It was named Xiuyan jade due to the place it was produced in Xiuyan county , Liaoning province. It is called Xiu jade also . It is grain stone , produced from magnesia carbon acid marble stone , there are many types of geography environment which produce jade in china , so the similar Xiu jade resources are extensive . The outlook of Xiu jade looks fresh green , yellow green . It is semitransparent . After
polishing , it shows candle shine , the hardness is between 3.5 degree to 5 degree . In Hongshan Culture of New Stone Tool Time , Jade was produced from Xiyu valley in Xiuyan , it was called Old jade . In Shang dynasty , the jadewares from Fuhao tomb were similar to Xiu jade produced in Xiuyan Wagou mine . Jade of Wagou mine has a long exploiting history , and it is a very rich resource . Today it is the main jade producing area in China , it posses 60% approximately of total quantity ."

(*Look at the specific gravity stated in the above message. Does it sound like nephrite to you?)

Xiu Yan is called either the "Jade City of China" or "the Hometown of Jade", some sources says up to 80% of jade production in China comes from Xiu Yan. If all they produce is serpentine, then where are all the nephrite currently mined in China come from? I can tell you, from Khotan, XinJiang, but the supply is also getting more and more scarce and the price is getting higher and higher. After all, just like diamond, jade is a scarce resource.

Now let us learn something about the famous Anshan jade buddha that was claimed by the forum jade expert as made of "nephrite":

I am also posted two pictures of it here to let you examine it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AnShan01.jpg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anshan_Jade_Buddha

"Anshan Jade Buddha is the largest jade Buddha statue in the world. It is located in Dongshan Scenic Reserve, Liaoning province, China.
The statue was sculpted from a piece of jade 7.95 meters high, 6.88 meters wide, 4.10 meters thick, weighing 260.76 tons. This piece of jade was found in the nearby Xiuyan town, known as "hometown of jade", on 22 July 1960.
There are several popular 'legends' regarding events that happened during the carving of the Jade Buddha."

Now more about the buddha and what it was really made of:

http://www.shunyadragon.com/contents/jadesilk/serpentine.htm

Serpentine

By Frank Doonan
Massive forms of serpentine rocks and minerals occur in many places in China. Bowenite is the most common serpentine rock used in carvings called jade today in China. The largest Buddha carving on the world is located in Anshan, Liaoning Province weighing over 260 metric tons. They are magnesium silicate rocks and minerals associated with metamorphic rocks like marble and green schist that form near the deep ocean trenches on the rim of the oceans.
Bowenite is commonly used in carvings by the Late Neolithic cultures. The various weapons, tools and implements carved from these stones were mostly used for ceremonial purposes, because they are somewhat soft and brittle making them poorly suited for utilitarian use or as weapons. Some round mace or club type weapon heads from the Late Neolithic have been found made of serpentine. The famous carvings of the Hongshan Stone Age Culture of North East China are mostly carved from bowenite. Throughout China’s history serpentine was an important stone used for pipe stems, combs, hair decorations for women, and other utilitarian objects. It also may have been one of the jade-like stones referred to as çë m¨ªn and other names, and worn by lesser officials."

and from:

http://www.shunyadragon.com/contents/travelogue/travel_xiuyan.htm

Journey to the Mountain of Jade

“The impatience and frustration of my friends grew each time I said no and pointed out the soapy feel and luster, and the coarse carving techniques used for the softer less durable serpentine minerals. Most of it was also a yellowish green to army green color more characteristic of serpentine minerals.”

“My friends became a little confused and impatient with me when I continued to describe everything we looked at as serpentine minerals, meta-jade glass and some agate. I kept seeing some small pieces that might be jade, but on closer inspection they were not jade.
“Xiuyan is famous for jade. Surely there is some jade for sale in the markets,” Yang Xu protested

“Remember the article we saw in the China Pictorial . They called the huge boulder in the picture jade, but it resembles the variegated serpentine material called bowenite we see in the large carvings in the stores. They may be just calling the bowenite jade. The bowenite found in Liaoning Province is either mined in the mountains or collected as gravel and cobbles in the river. Most of the river jade had a brown rind with a light colored opaque to translucent white, yellow and light green, but not usually the yellowish green to very dark bluish green interior. These pebbles and cobbles are nodules that weathered out of metamorphic rocks. “

“If there is nephrite jade in the region it will come from mostly blue schist that occurs in the region where nephrite is found. Those conditions may exist around Xiuyan, but the only material I saw that might be jade were small nodules in some of the large carvings we saw made from highly variegated serpentine rock. The serpentine minerals mined and carved here are often called Xiuyan yu or Xiu yu. This type of rock is softer and more brittle than nephrite so the carvings are large and coarse.”

About the Anshan Jade Buddha:

“After visiting the Museum we took a bus to Anshan to visit the huge jade Buddha. The temple they built for the Buddha was quite elaborate and new. The columns and panels on the walls were ornately carved and painted imitating ancient temples. The floors were polished and fastidiously cleaned by several workers. The Buddha was huge and very impressive as advertised, but it was carved from a boulder of variegated Serpentine minerals remarkably similar to the one featured in the 1990 China Pictorial .”

Therefore even from these English references, we can easily learn that the "jades" currently mined from Xiu Yan are mostly serpentine. The famous Anshan Jade Buddha was not carved from nephrite but instead from serpentine or a combination of non-jade materials.

I hope this will help set the record straight:

Yes, during ancient Hongshan era, high quality nephrite similar to that of hetian jades found in XinJiang were instead found in the Hongshan area and were indeed used to carve Hongshan jades. To conclude that all authentic Hongshan jades were made of serpentine is simply incorrect. On the other side, most of these nephrite mines were exhausted in today's China and most nephrite jades used in modern jade carvings in China are exported from oversea."

Thank you.

Bill

In my last message, when I said, "*Look at the specific gravity stated in the above message. Does it sound like nephrite to you?) "

What I actually tried to say should be "Look at the hardness stated in the above message, 3.4 to 5, does it look like nephrite to you?"

Now I have just found the record of the discovery of the "Jade of King" and how it was turned into a BIG JADE BUDDHA (the same Jade Buddha quoted by one forum jade expert as made of nephrite) and would like to share with everybody. I will also post the picture of the "King of Jade" when it was first discovered here.

The source of the article:

http://www.dbmanzu.net/bbs/topic.asp?bbsid=42&topicid=3221

(Translated)

"The discovery of the “King of Jade” in Anshan:

In the afternoon of July 22nd, 1960, the Xiu Yan Jade Mine miner captain, Wang Siu and several miners were in the process of mining (exact locations specified in Chinese). When they reached the depth of more than twenty meters, they discovered the top portion of a very smooth rock. Due to its surface was covered with a smooth stone layer, with yellow water rust, they couldn’t determine whether it was jade or not. Therefore they placed a charge (explosive or something similar) inside one of the holes on the rock and discovered that it was indeed a huge piece of jade boulder. The few miners who made this discovery were so excited that they continued to dig and more surfaces of the boulder were being exposed. Finally, the complete eastern section of the
boulder was totally exposed and it was the smooth surface of a jade boulder. The good
news was soon spread all over the mines and the whole place was filled with excitement. Incidentally, there was a sever thunderstorm that night and the whole jade boulder was flushed down by torrents of rain to the bottom of the mine field and the complete jade rock was exposed above ground. This shape of the this jade boulder was irregular, the top portion resembled the roof of a house, with colors such as dark green, green, light green, black, reddish yellow. It was very colorful. Its material was very smooth, without any impurities. There were no cracks or inside cracks that ran through the stone. Although they didn’t know its exact weight, because of its large volume, they called it “The King of Jade”. In 1984, the Liaoning Analyzing and Testing Research Institute had formed “The Analyzing team for the King of Jade” and traveled specifically to the adjacent area of the King of Jade. They performed complete testing on the jade boulder. With the assistance of special equipments, they obtained more than 700 3-dimensional points of the boulder, using x, y, z axis, they obtained an volume of 100.68 cubic meter for the boulder, with a specific gravity of 2.59 ton/cubic meter. Its total weight was 260.76 tons. (*NOTE: With a specific gravity of 2.59 it is no doubt that this jade boulder is definitely SERPENTINE and CANNOT BE NEPHRITE!!!!) This jade boulder is eight times heavier than the largest Burmease jadeite boulder ever found. It was the biggest jade boulder at that time and had broken the world record of jade boulder size. On October 17, 1995 after eighteen months’ skillful carving, this piece which was once known as “the King of Jade” had transformed into a “Buddha who had come upon the earth” and became the largest jade Buddha in the world. On November, 1997, the Big Xin Yan jade Buddha was officially recorded in the Guinness World Record. Later, a temple was built to house the jade Buddha and it became the “Jade Buddha Temple."

It is a very detailed and thorough record of the discovery of the largest jade boulder at the time and how it was transformed into the largest jade buddha in the world. Enjoy.

Bill

I would like to clarify that I absolutely have no intention in embarrassing any forum members by posting this thread. I just found that sometimes misinformation can be deadly. I am here to learn and to share, and not to criticize. Only when I was pushed to the extreme then I fought back. If I have unintentionally injured or hurt anybody with any of my threads or any of my messages, I would like to truly apologize.

I am sad to see what happened some times in this forum. Very often, instead of exchanging opinions with each other in the attempt of learning more about our hobbies, all we did were attacking each other.

The dirtiest trick is by attacking the ability of another person such as "since English is not your first language and therefore you must not understand what I am trying to say to you." While this statement may have some merits occasionally there is simply no place for the existence of such despicable behavior. It is similar in attacking another person with phrases such as:

"Since you are fat, you must be stupid"

or "Since you cannot speak or write in good English, you must be dumb."

or "Since you are handicapped, there must be something wrong with you."

What do we have to gain by attacking another person?

I found many times after myself had attacked another person in response to their nasty comments and soon afterwards I was both surprised by their kindness and praises and their graciousness truly shame me.

Therefore, once again, forgive my continued ramblings, I am sorry if have hurt your feelings and I will try to do better in the future. I do have a foul temper when I believe I was being attacked, therefore please bear with me.

Thanks.

Bill

In my conclusion statement posted in my first message, the sentence:

"To conclude that all authentic Hongshan jades were made of serpentine is simply incorrect."

may better be expressed as "To conclude that 98% of authentic Hongshan jades were made of serpentine is simply not appropriate unless such conclusion can be backed up with concrete evidence and/or actual data."

I apologize for any misunderstandings.

B

Evidence of limited nephrite supply in China:

http://www.friendsofjade.org/current-article/2004/3/29/bc-nephrite-report-2004.html

B.C. Nephrite Report, 2004

“B.C. continues to have the only operating nephrite mines in the world, and it remains the main source of nephrite production. New Zealand mining has all been closed down because of the “jade settlement” with the Maoris. Nephrite deposits in Siberia are being worked sporadically but no mine exists, and much of the material now in the market is from old Soviet-era production. However, with much lower operating and environmental costs than Canada, the Siberian deposits could soon replace Canada as the major producer. Infrastructure problems remain a major hindrance to the Russian jade industry. The very nice “Vitim” white jade deposits near Lake Baikal continue to produce jade, but pure white has become very rare so prices have soared. The bulk of the production is off-white or brown jade exported to South Korea. Most of the good white is exported directly to China.”

“China has started to produce green nephrite, but to date the quality remains well below the carving grade produced in Canada. The exception is white jade still produced above Khotan, in far western China, but again the price has soared, and little, if any, is available for export.”

“Demand for the unique properties of this jade has allowed prices to escalate to meet the high costs associated with this mining operation. Cassiar jade will be available in limited quantities at prices from $20-$50/kg for bulk exports to China, more than double what it sold for before the asbestos mine closed. Expect smaller amounts available to lapidary and small market users as well as prices about $20-$50 per US pound (not kilos).”

If China has produced enough nephrite why would it import nephrite at such high costs from Canada?

Look at the pictures of jade products in the jade factory and jade stores in China:

http://www.silvija.net/2002ChinaNov/jadepearlsilk.html

Do they look like they were made of nephrite to you?



The International Colored Gemstone Association (ICA)
Mining Report
http://www.gjepc.org/SOLITAIRE/magazines/Aug06_Sept06/Aug06_Sept06.aspx?inclpage=InFocus§ion_id=3

August to September, 2006

“CHINA
Sapphire, ruby, emerald, tourmaline, aquamarine, garnet, peridot, turquoise, nephrite and bowenite.
Sapphires are widely distributed over 20 provinces. In Shangdong province, there are reportedly 20 mines with an annual production of up to three tons. Rubies are found around Shagu, but are cut as cabochons because they are heavily included. Availability of secondary deposit is the key factor in the future of ruby mining in Yunnan. Emeralds are found in south Xinjiang at more than 5,000 metres above sea level and mining is difficult. Tourmaline finds are rare. Colour-change garnets are found only in Xinjiang and Qinghai. Two Hong Kong-based companies are involved in mining turquoise in Anhui province’s two mines. Hundreds of tons are produced annually with around 40 tons being of good quality. Xinjiang is the most important locality in China for nephrite, this variety being known as Hetian jade.”


http://mmsd1.mms.nrcan.gc.ca/minerals/Min/jade.htm

“Ninety per cent of Canadian production is sold to China, while the remaining ten percent is sold to Taiwan and New Zealand. During a short summer mining season, Jade West Resources Ltd. annually mines 100 tons of jade for export to China.

The price of jade varies according to quality and quantity, ranging from $10 to $100 per kilogram (USGS).”

Greetings to you, jade lover.
ChaoYan is located in the Western part of Manchuria (Liaoning) and apparently the Hong Shan carvings originate from AnShan area. If the hardstone from AnShan is nephrite or bowenite, is a matter of debate. When scientific proof would be brought about the identification of the stone, then we can state with more accurate statements about the classification of the carved material. So far, Chinese authorities claim that the local hardstone is made fom nephrite (jade), rather than bowenite (hardstone). Knowing the Chinese tendency to vague terminology, I would be inclined to believe that the second possibility is more plausible. In the posted thread, I mentioned that there was no known jade, or bowenite originary from Inner Mongolia and rather the hardstone carvings originated from other areas. If the Wikipedia encyclopedy is wrong, I will completely disagree, however if wrong information was provided to this respected source of information by Chinese authorities, is very much to believe. If this enormous statue is made from nephrite or bowenite, is impossible to ascertain from photos taken 10-20 feet away from the statue. Again, a scientific study is to be done, proving or negating the proclaimed " the biggest Jade Buddha in the world". My statement of support in my thread was taken from what communication is available, so far.
Mircea Veleanu

Dear Dr. Valeanu:

It was never my intention to show any disrespect toward any of your opinions. You have shown nothing but kindness toward me since you have joined this forum, unlike many other so-called jade experts and therefore I am extremely grateful. I believe I just got caught up in the fervor of debating when you concluded that "Hongshan Culture" was not a "Chinese Culture" but instead a "Mongolian Culture" and your stating that while nephrite could be found easily at Xiu Yan and Anshan, Liaoning but 98% of the authentic Hongshan jades were made of Bowenite (a type of serpentine).

My friend, B, actually did not disagree with you in that Hongshan culture might be a "Mongolian Culture" since some of the Hongshan artifacts were indeed discovered in the area of today's Inner Mongolia (Chifeng, which is outside the Great Wall). However, many other Hongshan site were found inside the Liaoning Province in China, such as the Niuheliang site. We also have to remember that the complete Hongshan territory is rather vast and its history is very long. There are many different minority races and cultures had probably co-inhibited in the such a vast area during the neolithic and bronze ages. Without further studies, I am simply not in a position to conclude whether the Hongshan Culture is indeed a pure Chinese Culture or if it is a pure Mongholian Culture or may be it is indeed a combination of many different cultures co-existed at the same time in the area.
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There is a google book titled:

"The Archaeology of Northeast China: Beyond the Great Wall
By Sarah Milledge Nelson"

http://books.google.com/books?id=KDtgLQfEGBsC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=chifeng&source=web&ots=HD-3KtFfXn&sig=qFlHTwJ8tzG_V13JwNZdUdWv1Yk#PPA58,M1

In the book the author discussed the discovery, origins and geography of Hongshan culture and she also discussed an essay written by Professor Guo Da-shun, the Hongshan guru, in the belief that Hongshan culture was indeed a Chinese culture. The author said the readers should draw their own conclusion. However, even she agreed that Hongshan culture might have a great impact on the Chinese culture since the time of Huang Di (Yellow Emperor) which was the era prior to the Xia dynasty. I have not got the chance to read the complete book yet (you have to purchase then whole book) and without doing further researches I am not in a position to render any opinions on the exact origins of the Hongshan culture. Incidentally, the person whom I believe can shed the most light in this subject will be Diasai who has been spending a lot of time in the studying of Hongshan culture. His knowledge in Hongshan is simply vast comparing with a lot of other members in this forum.
*************************************************
Once again, if you refer to this link:

http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E8%BE%BD%E5%AE%81%E7%9C%81&variant=zh-hk

It shows that Liaoning has always been a part of China since the Xia dynasty.

I had already shown Chaoyan had always been a part of China in a separate message and I am not going to repeat it here.
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Now let us look at the exact locations of two of the most famous Hongshan sites:

(1) The Niuheliang

http://211.86.193.14/%E8%8B%B1%E8%AF%AD%E5%9C%A8%E7%BA%BF/culture/ChinaCulture/ChinaCulture/en_travel/2003-09/24/content_33554.htm

The Niuheliang Site is located on the border of Lingyuan County and Jianping County, Liaoning Province.

The site, spreading over ten areas of more than 50 square kilometers, was discovered in 1981 and consists of the Temple of the Goddess and stone tombs. It belongs to the Neolithic Hongshan Culture that dates back 5,000 years.”

http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/141/
China (Asia and the Pacific)
Date of Submission: 12/02/1996
Criteria: (iii)(iv)
Category: Cultural
Submission prepared by:
State Bureau of Cultural Relics
Coordinates:
Chaoyang city - Liaoning Province Long. 119°30' East Lat. 41°20' North

Description

Niuheliang archaeological site, situated at the upper reaches of Dalinghe river and in the valley of Nuluerhu Mountain, belongs to the late Neolithic Hongshan Culture, which ages 3500 BC. It is a complex archaeological site made up of the Goddess Temple and the northern platform, the cairns and altar. it covers an area of 50 Km. The Goddess Temple, located on the top of the main ridge, is in subterranean civil structure. The area of the remained undergroud part is 75m, with one meter deep. The clay goddess statues, mural paintings and the painted pottery were unearthed. The cairns located on the top of the surrounding two hills were layed into square or round stepped tomb mound with limestone. Most of these tombs covers an area above 400m, and attached with painted cylindrical ware in rows. There is the large central burial inside the tomb with burial dragons, tortoises, bire-shaped pendants and jade hoops etc. The altar between the tombs is annular stone-fenced with three layers. There is a "pyramid" shaped building with earth and stone structure at the southern low hill, and the diameter of the stone steps is 60m. the sites are distributed along the trend of the mountain in line with the south-north axis, high echoing low and primary and secondary is distinct. The large scope building groups mainly with religious sacrifice, forming the center of the highest gradation of Honshan Culture are the positiveness to enter the ancient state age from Liao river valley at "Five-Emperor" period 5000 years ago.
United Nations - Copyright © 1992-2007 UNESCO World Heritage Centre, All Rights Reserved | Terms / Policies | v3.0, Updated 01 Oct 2007

http://map.meet99.com/map/959/1170.htm

Satellite map for Chaoyang City and Liaoning province

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%87%8C%E6%BA%90%E5%B8%82

(Translated)

Lingyaun County, Chaoyan City, Liaoning Province, China

“Lingyuan County is a county under the jurisdiction of the Liaoning Province, Chaoyan City. Its name “Ling Yuan” is originated from the fact that it was the source of the DaiLingHe (or Dai Ling River) (Yuan means origin or source, Ling is part of the name of the river.) The Niuheliang Hongshan site was found at the border of Lingyuan county and JianPing county.”

http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E5%BB%BA%E5%B9%B3%E5%8E%BF&variant=zh-hk
(translated)

“Jiangping County, Chaoyan City, Liaoning Province, China

The Jiangping County is under the jurisdiction of Chaoyan City, Liaoning Province. Total area of 4,838 square kilometer with a population of 5.8 million. Postal code is 122400.”

*************************************************
Before we go any further, we have to first understand the government structure in China in how they are classifying their city infrastructure. Unlike U.S.A., where county is bigger than city and many cities were within a county and under the jurisdiction of the county, it is very different in China. In China, the whole country was first divided into different provinces (sheng or xing), then each province will be further divided into different cities (shi) and each city will be divided into different counties (xian).

Therefore, the Niuheliang site is actually at the border of the Lingyuan County and Jianping County and both counties were part of the Chaoyan City (there is also a Chaoyan county within the Chaoyan city) and under its jurisdiction. The Chaooyan City is part of the Liaoning province and is under its jurisdiction.

On the other side, Anshan city where the large jade boulder was found is one of the cities inside Liaoning province and it is at the central southern part of Liaoning and the Niuheliang site is actually further away (northeast of it) from it and is not inside the Anshan city. The Xiu Yan county where most of the modern Xiu Yu (serpentine jades) are produced is inside the Anshan County. (Please see maps posted for more info)

More info for the Anshan city:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anshan

Anshan (Chinese: 鞍山; pinyin: Ānshān; lit. 'saddle mountain') is a county in Liaoning province, China. It has a population of approximately 3.6 million.
Located in the center of Liaoning Province, Anshan is one of the open cities on Liaodong Peninsula. Anshan covers an area of about 9,252 square kilometers. The longest distance from the north of Anshan to the south is 175 kilometers, and the distance from east to west is 133 kilometers. Anshan is about 89 kilometers south of the capital of Liaoning, Shenyang.

http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E9%9E%8D%E5%B1%B1&variant=zh-hk

Anshan City (translated)

The Anshan City is located in the central southern part of Liaoning Province, and is a city under the jurisdiction of the Liaoning Province, is the one of the most important steel production base in China, has the title of “Capital of Steel”. …..

************************************************
Book for the Niuheliang site:

http://www.paragonbook.com/html/browsesubj/fullcitation.cfm?item=4541
牛和梁红山文化遗址与玉器精粹
Niuheliang Hongshan Wenhua Weizhi Yu Yuqi Jingcui
Hongshan Culture and Hongshan Jade at Niuheliang
辽宁省考古研究所
Liaoning Province Archaeological Research Team
7.3 x 10.2", 102 pp., 101 color illustrations, text in Chinese, Beijing, 1997.
A detailed investigation of the famous Hongshan site at Niuheliang, west part of the Liaoning province. Illustrated here are jade carvings, earthernwares, photographs of the site, and how the objects were found in the graves. Following the essays, each object and photograph is amply described. Text in Chinese.
*************************************************
(2) Chifeng

The other imporstant Hongshan site was found in Chifen which was located in the Inner Mongolian Region and is very close to Chaoyang (see map).

http://www.kaogu.cn/en/detail.asp?ProductID=1333

“INTRODUCTION
Chifeng is one of the few areas in China where modern archaeology stamped its first footprints (Fig. 1). Torii Ryuzo, a famous Japanese archaeologist, travelled through the eastern Mongolian Plateau from 1906 to 1908 and recorded a number of archaeological sites. The Hongshanhou site (Chifeng, Inner Mongolia), after which the well-known Hongshan culture was named, was found in his journey (Torii 1914). “

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chifeng

Chifeng (Chinese 赤峰, Pinyin Chìfēng, Wade-Giles Ch'ih-fêng; lit.: red peak; Mongolian: ulaγan qada (pronounced like Ulaankhad, lit. red cliff) is a prefecture-level city in southeastern Inner Mongolia. It borders Xilin Gol to the north and west, Tongliao to the northeast, and Chaoyang prefecture of Liaoning and Chengde prefecture of Hebei to the south. The city has an area of 90,275 km² and a population of 4.48 million (2004). Chifeng is the seat of a Roman Catholic diocese

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-Chifeng.html

Chifeng
From: The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition | Date: 2007
Chifeng , city (1994 est. pop. 392,000), Inner Mongolian Autonomous Region, China. It is an agricultural distribution center, trading in wool, furs, hides, and grain. Coal and gold mines are nearby. It was called Ulan Hada by the Mongols, but in about 1778 it was colonized by the Chinese.

A book for the Hongshan jades found in the Chifeng site:

http://www.paragonbook.com/html/browsesubj/fullcitation.cfm?item=32239

红山玉器: 赤峰文物精华丛书
Hongshan Yuqi: Chifeng Wenwu Jinghua Congshu
Hongshan Jade: Essence of Chifeng Historical Relics Series
于建设
Yu, Jianshe
8.25 x 11.25", 204 pp., fully illustrated in color, text in Chinese with English captions, paper, map, Chifeng, 2005.
This is an important catalog on Chinese Jade from the Hongshan Culture in Chifeng County
**************************************************
Material of the Anshan Jade Buddha:

According to another message I just posted yesterday in which I quoted:
In 1984, the Liaoning Analyzing and Testing Research Institute had formed “The Analyzing team for the King of Jade” and traveled specifically to the adjacent area of the King of Jade. They performed complete testing on the jade boulder. With the assistance of special equipments, they obtained more than 700 3-dimensional points of the boulder, using x, y, z axis, they obtained an volume of 100.68 cubic meter for the boulder, with a specific gravity of 2.59 ton/cubic meter. Its total weight was 260.76 tons."

With a S.G. of 2.59, it is simply very unlikely that the jade Buddha can be made of nephrite but more likely of serpentine.

Incidentally, another much larger jade boulder was found in Anshan later and its size surpassed that of the previous jade boulder used to carve the jade buddha. However, it was described as "jade" without any specific information whether it is nephrite or serpentine.

On many Hongshan jade books, many of the Hongshan jade pieces were only described as "jade" without detailed description to its exact materials. Unless somebody can find some data refer to the exact material of all excavated Hongshan pieces and perform a statistical study, we may never know for sure whether it is true that most (and the exact percentage) of the authentic Hongshan jades were indeed made of serpentine. However, it can be proved that nephrite was indeed located inside the ancient Hongshan territory and were known for use in the carving of authentic Hongshan jades. Even today, small quantity of nephrites can be found around Anshan or Xiu Yan, however the quality of some of the nephrites were simply not the same quality of those found in the carving of archaic Hongshan jades. From my limited experience with Hongshan jades, many seeminly authentic Hongshan jades were carved in a celadon color (light green) high-quality nephrite jades resembles Hetian jades found in Xinjiang. This type of celadon nephrite will usually have a S.G. of 3.10 and a hardness of 6.5 (yes, that high). Due to such high quality and with the superb polishing skills of the Hongshan culture, the luster found on these jade pieces are simply exquisite and they shine like gems. One cannot mistake when one see one. Of course, without any other signs of "age" or close examination of carvings found on these pieces, it is not possible to confirm their authenticity. Of course, it is quite possible that high-quality Hongshan fakes can be made of similar Hetian jades but without the long-lost polishing skills of the Hongshan people, such fake pieces will simply look "wrong". Also, the cost of producing such fakes will outweigh the selling prices of some of these pieces.

Therefore, without further and in-depth studying of Hongshan cultures and its jades, any conclusion regarding its material, origins and authenticity will easily be erroneous or inaccurate. That is why I was hoping members in this forum would keep an open mind in the studying of Hongshan jades. Unfortunately, that is simply not the case. There seem to be more critics than true scholars.

Thank you for your indulgence.

Bill

At the ancient time in China, some times it was simply not easy or timely to locate a large amount of quality nephrite jade and then transport it miles away for the production of a large quantity of jade carvings such as those were destined for burial uses in an emperor's tomb. Due to this fact, many of these burial jade carvings were made of "local" or "area" jades found in the vicinity of the tomb. Many of these "local jades" were not necessarily nephrite and could be lesser jade materials such as serpentine, graphite, feldspar, etc. This scenario does not apply to burial jades alone but aslo to other archaic jades due to the same reasons.

One of the easiest ways to dectect "modern fakes" is by examining all the jade pieces that are readily available from certain sources especially from the same dealer. There are two well known forum dealers who have been selling "archaic jades" from different dynasties that were made of the same jade materials and with the similar weathering. Even, my friend, B, after looking at them for a few minutes told me that they were "fakes".

Under the same criterion, it is quite true that many of the smaller Hongshan style jade pieces that were made of similar orange-green nephrite stones with suspicious white stuff covering their carving and many of these bigger sized Hongshan style nephrite carvings that were made of similar material, with equally bad white patina and pits, that were carved poorly can be easily identified to be fakes. However, there are a few pieces that are made of extremely high quality and unique nephrite or serpentine materials that were not easily found anywhere, with "age" signs that can only be found on "old buried" jades, with excellent carvings and sometimes excellent luster, without any modern tool marks detected should deserve closer scrutiny and should not be labeled as "modern fakes" without further studies. When I am holding a jade piece in my hand, I will never know what I may find until I can examine it closely and with assitance of scientific testing. Many times, I was surprised that my initial impression or conclusion on such piece is simply erroneous. Sometimes, even afer my studies, I still do not know what they are and how old they may be.

Bill

It is amazing that many forum jade experts cannot admit that they can be wrong in that "nephrite is really not that cheap" or readily available in China for all these fakes to make a large quantitify of modern fake Hongshan jades with nephrite. They claimed many cheap (both in price or in quality) nephrite are readily available available in BC, Canada.

I would like to challenge them in providing me with some reference or sources in where to obtain this type of cheap but genuine nephrite materials from anywhere in the world (including postages). I do not want any serpentine, mind you.

Thanks.

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