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Subject:Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Barry Thu, Mar 21, 2013 IP: 195.93.21.35 Thanks Bill for trying to identify the charger from the pathetically small photos. I hope these much larger ones will help in identifyinig if this is Japanese or Chinese and approx date or period. |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: adam Thu, Mar 21, 2013 Looks canton...But those overglaze enamels look mighty fresh to me!!! |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Robert Thu, Mar 21, 2013 I can't tell if the rim on your charger has gilding, a light iron brown "dressing", or is left in the unglazed biscuit. I have a large (ca. 50 cm) mid-18th century blue and white Chinese export charger with a similar number and pattern of spur support marks on the back and a light iron brown glaze or "dressing" on the rim. The borders on your charger and mine are not identical but stylistically quite similar, of course yours being in enamel colors and mine only blue underglaze. Your charger, with its opaque famille rose enamels (with mixing of the tin-white and colloidal gold enamels), looks pretty much ok for Chinese export, mid to late 18th century to me. The only concern I have is with the color of the footrim, which appears maybe a little too white in the photo when I would expect it to be more of a straw yellow in color. Of course that could be due to very low iron content of the biscuit. |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: peterp Fri, Mar 22, 2013 Excellent quality! In the decoration there is nothing that looks Japanese. The rim decoration underneath would normally be Kangxi. Whether it is 18th century or a superb copy of the 19th century could be decided perhaps by the shape of the foot rim (but it is difficult with a picture from straight above). A shot taken at an angle might help. |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Bill H Fri, Mar 22, 2013 I'm not satisfied that this is an antique but have insufficient time at the moment to prepare images to underpin my opinion. It make take a few more days before I can satisfy obligations to others that preoccupy me, but I'll try my best to get back ASAP. Hopefully someone else has an opinion too. |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Bill H Mon, Mar 25, 2013 I've attached three images containing, from the top down: |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Barry Fri, Mar 22, 2013 Larger rear view showing stilt marks |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Arjan Fri, Mar 22, 2013 Hi Barry and all, |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Barry Sun, Mar 24, 2013 I cannot thank everyone for their help so far, but boy am I confused now. I will try and add more tomorrow when I have had a chance to get my head around the excellent and considered comments. |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Barry Sun, Mar 24, 2013 Another of footrim |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Barry Sun, Mar 24, 2013 face close up |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Barry Mon, Mar 25, 2013 Okay, thanks agiain for all your help so far. |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Robert Mon, Mar 25, 2013 Of course I will defer to Bill and Arjan, but it looks to me like the faces were drawn by a Chinese rather than a European decorator, and in an 18th century style. Also, the decoration on the plate rim (seen in the photo of the entire plate, above) looks like some of the Qianlong export borders from the second half of the reign that I have seen. Arjan raises an interesting point, however, about some Japanese porcelain plate blanks being over-enamelled in China. |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Barry Tue, Mar 26, 2013 Thank you Bill, Peter, Adam, Arjan and Robert. |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Bill H Wed, Mar 27, 2013 Herewith are links to images of three Yongzheng period plates of the type shown in the Santos catalog but of photographic quality (hopefully). I didn't see anything in the Santos catalog or these pictures at the links below that compares to the lack of animation in the figural painting on your charger. |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Y. E. Wong Thu, Mar 28, 2013 Like. Good presentation! |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Y. E. Wong Wed, Mar 27, 2013 I have to say that this piece was made in the 20th century. Some of the decorations on this plate are seriously flawed, and treated with haste and carelessness. The outer bands and the red outlines look good (obviously painted by another artisan/s), but when comes to mixing or blending colors, various area of the central decorations are just undesirable or questionable to a critical eye. |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: billy Wed, Feb 17, 2016 This is 100% French! And a very nice piece. Bayeux. |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Billy D Wed, Jul 11, 2018 The plate is a Samson of Paris piece. Here is a link to gallery that has a few like it, http://www.alaintruong.com/archives/2010/06/04/18122028.html |
Subject:Re: Thanks Bill H. Larger pictures of 45cm charger uploaded
Posted By: Bill H Thu, Jul 12, 2018 Billy D, many thanks for the link. Those are the kind of Samson dishes I was looking for but couldn't find five years ago. |
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