Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries


Visitors' Forum

Asian Art  Forums - Reply Message
Asian Art Forums

Message Listing by Date:
Message Index | Back | Post a New Message | Search | Private Mail | FAQ
Subject:Enamel on ceramic paintings - is forgery common??
Posted By: Ian Dubin Sat, Oct 21, 2017 IP: 42.2.219.172

Hi there folks

Is it common to find hand painted copies of enamel on ceramic paintings by famous early 20th Century artists?

I have acquired a number of enamel on ceramic quadryptych paintings signed and sealed as Wang Dafan (1888 - 1961).

Provenance is good (although not ironclad) as they came from the estate of a collector operating in Hong Kong in the 50s - early 90s.

These are clearly hand painted works, highly detailed and magnificently executed in what appears to be Wang Dafan's style, with framing typical of Dafan pieces that have gone to auction in Europe and Asia.

I attach photos of one particularly beautiful and whimsical set of panels.

I am aware of the history of forgery of ancient scrolls and silk paintings, personified by the story of Zhang Daqian.

And there are certainly lots of modern fakes in the pottery world, showing ancient marks and in antique styles.

But I can't find anything much about hand painted forgeries of relatively modern works like those of Wang Dafan.

I believe the painting below is titled '100 Children by Wang Dafan and dated 1928 as a guest at Zhushan' thanks to an earlier translation on this forum by M. I Nagy.

I see pieces being sold, especially in North America labelled as 'marked as Wang Dafan' or 'attributed to Wang Dafan'.

Is this shorthand for 'these are copies'?

Any advice gratefully received.

Thanks in advance

Ian Dubin







Subject:Re: Enamel on ceramic paintings - is forgery common??
Posted By: Bill H Sun, Oct 22, 2017

Both plaques bear the title of "Baizitu" (100 Children Picture), and the enlarged inscription has a cyclical date of "Wuchen" (1928), along with attribution of "Done by Wang Dafan while at a Zhushan (Jingdezhen) guest house."

Only thing missing here is the slightest similarity with Wang Dafan's masterful painting style. I'd say your plaques probably date to the late 20th century or subsequently.

Here are some links to Christie's auctions of authentic Wang Dafan porcelains. The pictures are small but no more so than yours. You should be able to see the difference without squinting.

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/a-famille-rose-porcelain-panel-republic-period-5434894-details.aspx?

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/a-famille-rose-meiping-early-20th-century-5477476-details.aspx?

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/a-large-famille-rose-scholars-ceramic-plaque-5379926-details.aspx?

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/a-large-famille-rose-bottle-vase-wang-5129629-details.aspx?

Best regards,

Bill H.

Subject:Re: Enamel on ceramic paintings - is forgery common??
Posted By: Ian Dubin Tue, Oct 24, 2017

Bill

Thanks for this and for the links, yes the difference is clear even to my untrained eye.

I did a search on Artnet.com and found auction results for 58 Wang Dafan works. Prices ranged from dirt cheap, to not sold, to 'time to order the Rolls, honey'.

A lot of the ones not sold look suspiciously like what I have.

Although this one, not dissimilar, went for 1.1 M HKD.

http://www.artnet.com/artists/wang-dafan/sidameinv-4-works-KU0MQIlUgRurSOsf1OERSw2

Hard to tell because of poor image quality.

Thanks for your help

Best regards

Ian


Subject:Re: Enamel on ceramic paintings - is forgery common??
Posted By: Ian Dubin Tue, Oct 24, 2017

Hi Bill

Thanks again

My provenance says no later than mid 90s BTW.


Best regards

Ian

Subject:Re: Enamel on ceramic paintings - is forgery common??
Posted By: Ian Dubin Wed, Oct 25, 2017

Just for interest, here is a link to a document I created showing the hammer prices of all of Wang Dafan's work as recorded on Artnet.com

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzLl90lt1Qr7ZnNhWHZpdGNxNHc/view?usp=sharing

Subject:Re: Enamel on ceramic paintings - is forgery common??
Posted By: Ian Dubin Mon, Oct 30, 2017

How the hell can a forger come up with something like this?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Bynh1QdY28MrMpL8lG-fYY4Ok0RyZnMROrvhOe_uRL8/edit

Post a Reply
Name:
Email:
Group: China & Japan
Subject:
Message:
Link URL:
Enter here the complete URL of any site, page or image you would like to show other visitors.
URL Title:
Enter here the title of the link you've given above. This will appear to the visitor. Eg., if you are linking another picture, enter "Another picture". The link will not appear without a title.
Image URL:
Enter here the URL of an image if it is already uploaded on the web. The image will appear with your posting. Do not post pictures which are not yours without permission from the copyright holder. It is the responsibility of each poster to make sure they have permission to use any photos they post.
Image: You may upload up to three images. If you would like to upload more images to this message please do so by replying to this same message.

Please make sure the file type is JPEG or GIF and the filename does not contain spaces.





Use the Browse button to find an image (jpg or gif) on a local drive on your computer to upload for including with your message. Do not upload images with file names containing spaces. Please do not upload files larger than 100 KB in size. Do not post pictures which are not yours without permission from the copyright holder. It is the responsibility of each poster to make sure they have permission to use any photos they post. Check the "email notification" box below if you would like to be notified of any responses to your message.
Check here for email notification.
Security Code: Security Image: please enter the text appears in this image.

Please type in the code you see in the image directly above this input box.
 

Subject:Re: Enamel on ceramic paintings - is forgery common??
Posted By: Bill H Wed, Nov 01, 2017

In my opinion, your forger still needs to return to the easel for more practice emulating the master. As a Qianjiang-school artist, Wang Dafan was bringing scroll-painting techniques to porcelain surfaces. Hard to believe the individual who panted your plaques ever learned to paint a beard with a brush having only one bristle. Here's more proof of Wang's pudding.

Best regards,

Bill H.



Subject:Re: Enamel on ceramic paintings - is forgery common??
Posted By: rat Tue, Oct 31, 2017

Believe it or not, it's not that hard, especially when you can hire an existing ceramic painter to do the work. Painters in China have been trained from time immemorial by copying noteworthy paintings. A fair number of early paintings are thought to survive only as close copies, initially made specifically to preserve copies of much-loved works for posterity. The closest examples we have of the famous calligrapher Wang Xizhi's work, for example, exist in the form of Tang dynasty tracing copies. Painters who later became known for their own works are known to have started out painting works in the style of better known painters who employed them to do so because they could not keep up with demand. Luo Ping for example is known to have worked for Jin Nong, painting plum blossoms in Jin's style.

Subject:Re: Enamel on ceramic paintings - is forgery common??
Posted By: rat Tue, Oct 31, 2017

Thanks for posting this information, it is an excellent reference.


Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries |