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Subject:Tang Horses?
Posted By: LisaH Sat, Aug 28, 2021 IP: 2600:1700:5d10:2060:

I just got these home yesterday from auction. Per consignor, they were purchased in Hong Kong over twenty years ago and are purported to be from the Tang Dynasty. I paid a pretty penny for them and hope they are the 'real deal'.

I did perform a tiny acetone test and the paint does not come off. Also, water absorbs immediately and leaves a dark mark for about ten minutes. Both pieces are missing an ear on the horse and one has had a noticeable hand repair.
I looked carefully at the insides of them and there is NO dirt just clay, which is a concern. Can anyone tell me if it is worth having them TL tested? I can post more pics if needed. Thank you in advance!







Subject:Re: Tang Horses?
Posted By: Sean Sun, Aug 29, 2021

Try the knock test first. Tap gently and it should sound hollow like an earthenware and not like porcelain. Some fakers fire at too high a high temperature.

Subject:Re: Tang Horses?
Posted By: LisaH Mon, Aug 30, 2021

Thank you! I really appreciate your knowledge. They are very interesting pieces.

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Subject:Re: Tang Horses?
Posted By: pierre vanderweerden Sun, Aug 29, 2021

Hello,

Your 2 horses and riders, most certainly musicians,seems to be of the period according to the humidity reaction and to the style. You could also check if the clay used is orange/red. Such a statue's value is about 1.000 US$, a TL test should be around 3 or 400$ per horse. By the way they seems to be made during the period of the only empress China ever had ( Wu Ze Tian ) around 650 to 700 AD .
Have a nice day.

Subject:Re: Tang Horses?
Posted By: Steve Gridley Mon, Aug 30, 2021

Very nice pieces. If from that narrow period as indicated, it might be worth a TL test. TL testing has come down in the years. Also, the new optically stimulated luminescence (OSL)may work on the pieces. I would also check with a couple auction houses for pre-sale estimates to get a ballpark value estimate.

Restoration? Others will have to chime in here. Fagan Art Restoration in Dallas does an excellent job. That being said, I always prefer to leave such items in as-found condition.

Subject:Re: Tang Horses?
Posted By: LisaH Mon, Aug 30, 2021

I cannot thank all of you enough for your valuable information! I have sent lots of pics off to Christie's and hopefully will hear back from them soon.

Subject:Re: Tang Horses?
Posted By: LisaH Tue, Aug 31, 2021

Thank you for your reply, Steve. I've checked into TL testing and it seems the price is roughly $400 USD per piece. If they are valued at $1000 each, I can't see coughing up that amount.
That said, I wish I could keep and display them, but I'm in this business to make a profit and my husband would frown on that anyway.

Subject:Re: Tang Horses?
Posted By: LisaH Tue, Aug 31, 2021

Thank you Pierre, for your valuable insight into the pieces. Might I be so bold as to ask how you were able to determine they are possibly from the Wu Zetian reign? I find that so intriguing! I might add I paid $800 USD for both of them at a local estate auction and thought that was a lot, but I had a hunch they may very well be authentic.

Subject:Re: Tang Horses?
Posted By: pierre vanderweerden Wed, Sep 01, 2021

hello,
First, regarding the first horse and rider you posted, take a good look at the neck to the knee of the rider. You will see what is supposed to be a drum hanging there. In the right hand of the rider there was a stick to hit the drum. that's why I am very sure they are musicians. The other had also an instrument inbetween his 2 hands. Maybe a flute or somethig like that. As for the Wu Zetian period: I have been told that the horses with narrow holes where made specificaly during her reign period. Normaly the vast majority of Tang horses have a large hole inbetween the chest and the tail. I have a few of those musicians + horses horses as well,made TL on two of them, and had a result indicating years 400 to 700 AD.
Have a nice day.

Subject:Re: Tang Horses?
Posted By: LisaH Wed, Sep 01, 2021

Thank you, Pierre, I really appreciate you sharing that information. Since you own some of these beautiful pieces, would you say that mine are similar? If so, does it affect their value missing their instruments?
By the way, the second horse has a larger opening underneath it and is made of a grayish clay. The first one's clay is red/orange. Could they be from different time periods?
Thank you again for taking the time to offer me insight!

Subject:Re: Tang Horses?
Posted By: LisaH Wed, Sep 01, 2021

Thought I would post a few more pictures.....







Subject:Re: Tang Horses?
Posted By: pierre vanderweerden Thu, Sep 02, 2021

Hi LisaH,

Re instrument:(first horse)
Part off the instruments/accessories was in wood. It is therefore normal that they are missing. Those little wood things don't survive centuries.It should not affect the price. However the bad restauration of the hand will.

The second horse:
with that one I have a problem. For sure it is not of the same period than the drummer one but, with the info you just gave, I doubt very much of it's authenticity.Grey/whitish clay was used exclusively for royal Tang pieces. Here, it is obviously not an elaborate horse / rider made for royals. So for sure the second one is not from the same period and, another clue is the horse's tail. It is not in the Tang style. If old could it be Sui Dynasty or 21st century? Most of the fakes are made in white/grey clay.
I can't tell without handling the statue, sorry.

Have a nice day.

Subject:Re: Tang Horses?
Posted By: LisaH Fri, Sep 03, 2021

Thanks again Pierre. Yes, I agree they appear to be from different time periods. I am positive they are extremely old though. When I wet them in areas, they smell like nothing I have ever smelled before in my life and I used to work with clay years ago. It doesn't smell like that at all.
I have done countless hours of research and it seems to me fake ones are most commonly 'too good to be true'. They are simply too perfect. In my humble opinion, something over a thousand years old would look and smell just like these pieces. If they are reproductions, someone did a museum dupe kind of job! lol

I've decided against TL testing them as I do not want holes drilled in them, however miniscule they may be. And, I've come to understand that even TL testing can be inaccurate as counterfeiters know where the item is likely to be drilled and inject radioactive material to duplicate extreme age.

Here is a link you and others might find interesting.
https://www.gluckman.com/ChinaFraud.html



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