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Subject:Chinese Plate - Fake ? Expert Opinion welcomed !!
Posted By: Peter Tue, Jun 22, 2021 IP: 91.141.1.41

I've recently been offered the chance to purchase this (apparently) antique Chinese plate.

However, I'm not 100% sure as to whether this could be yet another clever copy designed to deceive.
The motifs seem, in my amateur opinion at least, to be somewhat uninspired and inanimate - if you see what I mean. The bird looks, well, two dimensional and almost amateurish.
The back appears to be more convincing though.

I'd be very grateful and interested to hear what you experts out there make of this.
Thank you in advance !!!







Subject:Re: Chinese Plate - Fake ? Expert Opinion welcomed !!
Posted By: I.Nagy Thu, Jun 24, 2021

This plate is a small repository of the Chinese symbolc and artistic motifs,
All these motifs appear on Chinese ceramics, textiles, paintings etc. and dominate the Chinese culture have a meaning. The Chinese art contains a whole code of these symbols. Some are based on the similarities of an objet's attributes to to another object (a metaphor), while others are a play on a word's pronunciation (homophone).
Here, I try to explain the meanings of the main motifs on this plate.

Set of book in cover decorated with filet;
Books symbolize the important Confucian virtues of erudition and learning.
Vase;
In Chinese is identical with "ping = peace", and this together with the wide variety of flowers, which we can put into the vase gives rise to a rich field of symbolism.
Peonies;
Symbolizes royalty, rank, wealth and honor
Pomegranates;
Due to the proliferation of seeds in pomegranate, fecundity and offspings are stimulated visually. The word pomegranate "shiliu" (石榴)is homophonous the "shi" (世)that means "geneerations".
Peaches;
Symbolize immortality and longevity
Zhi (Mushroom with stalk and cap);
Symbolizes fertility
Halberd (Diagonally behind the big vase with peonies);
One of the twelve insignia of the imperial power.
Ribboned rhinoceros horn cup;
Is one of the lucky symbols associated with the scholar.
Sword tied by a ribbon;
Is one of the eight Daoist symbols - associated with immorality.
Magpie on a scroll;
Magpies are believed to herald good fortunes.
etc. etc.

I think it could be about a hundred years old.

With regards,
I.Nagy

Subject:Re: Chinese Plate - Fake ? Expert Opinion welcomed !!
Posted By: Peter Fri, Jun 25, 2021

Many thanks for your interesting and enlightening explanation of the symbols.
Your expertise and assistance are both greatly valued and sincerely appreciated.

Subject:Re: Chinese Plate - Fake ? Expert Opinion welcomed !!
Posted By: Stan Fri, Jun 25, 2021

Many thanks for that explanation, I. Nagy. While I don't collect ceramics, your explanation was fascinating.

Cheers,
Stan

Subject:Re: Chinese Plate - Fake ? Expert Opinion welcomed !!
Posted By: Mark Adams Thu, Jun 24, 2021

Nice dish. Judging by the colours/other and the back it's my opinion it's from the late Qing period 19th century.
I would remove the wiring.
Regards,
[email protected]

Subject:Re: Chinese Plate - Fake ? Expert Opinion welcomed !!
Posted By: Peter Fri, Jun 25, 2021

Many thanks for your helpful comments, Mark.

Much obliged!

Subject:Re: Chinese Plate - Fake ? Expert Opinion welcomed !!
Posted By: peterW Wed, Jun 30, 2021

The plate itself is from the early 19th century, as the underside decoration and foot rim show, but the top has been completely re-decorated, that is the original decoration was likely over-painted 100%, in the 20th century.

Subject:Re: Chinese Plate - Fake ? Expert Opinion welcomed !!
Posted By: Peter Fri, Jul 02, 2021

Many thanks indeed for your interesting comments peterW. It never even crossed my mind that the dish could have been redecorated at some time or other. As I indicated above, it was the decoration that unsettled me.
As an amateur collector, it's difficult enough to establish a modest collection whilst contending with the myriad of fakes and copies.

I think I'll have to give this red herring a wide berth.


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