Asian Art Forums - Detail List

Asian Art Forums

Group: Message Board

Re: Re: Re: Fish Carving

Posted By: gman
Posted Date: Dec 31, 2007 (01:08 PM)

Message
Quote Steve:
"Ernest Wilhelm, Did you read my last message? You're so caught up in disproving it your not helping me at all. I am a gemologist and I do know what I am doing. I need to understand the design more, and again I am not selling it... Please read my last message again Thanks."

Steve,
Ernest has given you his expert opinion based on the terrible blurred photos you have supplied.
And sometimes it is not necessary to go further than the blurry photos, what needs to be seen is seen already.
The fact that you are a gemologist, whether by hobby or profession does not mean much here as what you are seeking is more to do with opinions regarding age and artistic merit which more than one contributor has already given you.
It is an unfortunate fact of life in these forums that people purchase objects with a certain assumption, and then ask questions later.

First of all, you stated that the object was an antique. What made you assume that?
The frame does not appear to have any age. And as Ernest indicated, giving you the benefit of his 44 years of experience, he has never seen an antique jade displayed nor sold in this manner.
As a gemologist, would you buy a diamond or a ruby without physically inspecting it in your hand?

Secondly,
the contributors in this forum can only go by the information you supply them with, and nothing you have said is giving them any reason to re-think their opinions. If anything, what you are saying is substantiating their opinions.

Quote:
"I've seen alot of fakes and know the difference. I was looking for a date."

It would have been helpful to mention where you bought this piece, and to state what the seller had labeled it as regarding it's age and origin.
You say you have seen a lot of fakes, but you don't mention that you have a background in collecting jades which gives you an educated eye to differentiate between a fake/forgery or modern tourist piece and an authentic antique/archaic/archaistic or dynastic piece.
As you stated:
"it's like a large Ruby in the hands of a poor man the odds are it's fake because of the value but I could tell with a 10 power loop if it's real or fake"
Actually, this scenario depends a lot on where you meet up with the poor man with the large ruby in his hand. As a gemologist, you must be aware that most large rubies are found by poor men. So if you are in the jungles of Burma, and a poor man approaches you with a large ruby, the odds of it being a real ruby are much better than if you are approached by a poor man in Hong Kong. And what good is your 10 power loop if the alledged ruby is sealed in a plastic case?

Quote:
"I think it's very old and I am trying to find out just how old it is by the design. Please help with what I am trying to find out. How about the hook in the mouth? also the design on the belly?. As far as the eye I am an artist myself and can see where it works. Let's just give the benefit of a closer look and telling me it's fake is not working for me, I know better. I know all of you are offering help and I do respect that and I am doing even more study and they have been making fakes for thousands of years and they have value also."

Several forum members have already said:
They don't see anything stylistically which leads them to believe it is anything archaic; That the carvings display poor craftsmanship; The stone appears to have been dyed to enhance it's appearance;
Member Bill even commented on what the hardness and specific gravity requirements are to determine whether the stone is nephrite jade.
Instead of testing your piece and informing the forum of your findings, you posted what appears to be an article on jade from your gemologists handbook.

Quote:
"One thing I'm not selling this piece I'm keeping it... I like it. ( also I can feel the power it gives off, some may know what I mean by that )."
This is important information.
Not that you are not selling it,
or that you feel it is giving off power,
but that "you like it".
Because you bought it and as long as you like it and you are happy with the price you paid whether it is old or new, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

However, as far as your future purchases go, the forum members are only trying to point out the glaring issues which would have been red flags to them as longtime jade collectors in order to help you make better informed purchases, and to avoid ill advised purchases.
Rather than acting out your denial, you should carefully list the opinions, and the recommended actions which were offered to you by the forum members, in order to determine whether you have been duped.
Depending on how and where you purchased the piece, as Ernest suggested, you might attempt to return it for a refund.
If you take it to a reputable jade expert as was suggested, and you find that it is indeed authentic to whatever it was sold to you as, or whatever you think it should be, it will then be your opportunity to enlighten and educate the forum members as to what you found.
Just keep in mind that the members here can only make comments based on the photos and the solid information you supply regarding where you bought the piece, and the hardness and S.G. results.
So far you have only supplied blurred photos and speculation.
If you approach Christies or any reputable dealer in this manner they will not even respond.
I am not sure why you keep repeating that you are not selling the piece, do you think someone is going to tell you it is fake and then try to buy it from you for nothing?

It does not make sense to come here asking for opinions and then dispute each opinion you are given... they are not getting any satisfaction from telling you what they see appears to be anything but antique.
They are only trying to help you by sharing their opinions based on their experience.
If you prefer to go and pay an appraiser to tell you the same thing, that is your choice.

Just don't kill the messengers.

Cheers
Gman

Post a Response

Responses: