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Subject:THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Sat, Apr 23, 2016 IP: 108.24.177.84 I realize this will clear up some of the questions about the Ru/Ju Kiln wares and Emperor Huizong reign. This is very important that the truth be told. For many years everyone had to rely on the pieces that are in the Qianlong Emperors collection, those pieces are very nice but they are not the real Imperial Ru/Ju ware that Emperor Huizong commissioned the Ru/Ju Kiln to produce for himself and his court. The Ru/Ju Kiln produced three types of wares. The first wares were being sold to the wealthy merchant class and these wares did not have the fire gilded bands and did not have crushed agate stone in the glaze. Any wares that had firing flaws would be sold to the population at a much cheaper price. The second wares they produced were the tribute wares that were given to the Emperor and his court as tribute. All these wares have the fire gilded bands that are around the rim and base and sometimes only the rim. These bands have extensive layered cuprite and malachite corrosion that only occurs in nature and cannot be faked. (From the book Copper and bronze in art by David Scott The existence of malachite formation over a layer of cuprite is supported by analytical and metallographic studies, is a good indication of the authenticity of an artifact.) These tribute wares had several colors and many forms and did not have crushed agate in the glaze. One of the tribute pieces is marked Feng Wang a tribute to the Emperor, these are not the commissioned pieces because the emperor would never give tribute to himself. The third wares they produced were the Imperial wares that Emperor Huizong commissioned the Ru/Ju Kiln to produce for him and his court. Emperor Huizong was unhappy with all the opulent tribute wares he was receiving from several kilns and also the Ru/Ju Kiln opulent tribute wares. These tribute wares were too flamboyant with the fire gilded bands and their opulent forms and colors. Emperor Huizong was an artist and a modest man and he saw beauty in simplicity. Emperor Huizong must have had some contact with the Korean Koryo Dynasty celadon wares because the color he chose and glaze is similar to the Koryo celadon wares. Emperor Huizong decided to commission the Ru/Ju Kiln because they were producing the finest wares.The Imperial commissioned wares are not opulent like the merchant or tribute wares they are very understated and have modest and refined forms with only one color Celadon, and they have texture from the crushed agate stone that was put into their mix. Agate melts at 2912 degrees F and the Song dynasty kilns temperature only reached 1250 degrees F at best, so this is a fallacy that the crushed agate melted in the glaze, also it would be very difficult to crush agate into a complete powder this is why you can clearly see traces of the agate stone in the glaze using a 20x loupe or better. The Prototypes the foot rings were glazed and you can see spur marks, Emperor Huizong did not like the spur marks so he requested they remove them, so they stopped glazing the foot rings and the final version was fired flat in the kiln. Many have marks scratched on the bases like Feng Hua I believe this is a tribute for China and also other marks. Emperor Huizong had a vision to produce wares that would be very understated, refined, and modest and look like they were formed from jade stone. It did not matter if a piece had flaws, because each piece has its own character. Any flawed pieces would be distributed to the court and no pieces were sold to anyone other than the court. The Emperor was a modest man and saw each piece as individual piece, and even if they had flaws, he saw beauty. Almost like human beings with all their flaws, they are beautiful. It is very apparent that Emperor Huizong worked very closely with the Ru/Ju Kiln to develop these Imperial wares. The Ru/Ju Kiln certainly fulfilled the Emperor’s vision and produced these wonderful wares exclusively for the Emperor and his Court. Also I have attached photos that you can see on this Imperial Ru ware Vase they did not crush the agate stone enough, the glaze has tiny holes caused by the agate, the foot ring you can see a drip of glaze that has chips of agate. All of this is clear conclusive evidence that these are the true Imperial Ru ware that Emperor Huizong commissioned the Ru/Ju Kiln to produce for him and his court. First photo the first three rows are Tribute Ru Ware. The forth row is the Imperial Ru ware that Emperor Huizong produce. |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Sun, Apr 24, 2016 The first two photos first two rows show Ru Kiln merchant ware. The third photo shows the cuprite and malachite on the fire gild band on the Ru kiln tribute ware for more info go to chinesemasterpieces.com |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: TD Mon, Apr 25, 2016 Joseph, |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Mon, Apr 25, 2016 Go to my website at chinesemasterpieces.com and read the introduction and the home page. and you will understand that the person at Bonhams never handled A Ruyao piece in his life. The Palace Museum believe they are from the Song Dynasty. You Can't fake The cuprite and malachite corrosion on the Ru Tribute wares. No one controlling this market wants to admit the are not being honest with collectors about what is truly available in the market place. All the Ru Ware in museums around the world is Ru Kiln merchant ware and most are flawed pieces. which would have been sold to population very cheap. They are afraid to come clean with collectors because of the all money involved. This will soon change. |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: TD Tue, Apr 26, 2016 Then show them to Nicolas Chow at Sotheby's who recently sold a Ru washer for millions. Surely he/they must be interested in earning millions more in commission from the sale of your collection if the pieces are deemed genuine. |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Wed, Apr 27, 2016 I don't do business with Sothebys. I know that they're period pieces. Thank you for your interest. |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: pipane Sun, May 01, 2016 Sorry these are not old, glaze aspect, bottom, marks are consistent with modern productions. Some have been artificially aged, some (the sky bleue ones are just modern production (not really made to fool collectors beside the period style). |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Mon, May 02, 2016 Sorry you are totally wrong they can't reproduced the cuprite and malachite corrosion on the ru tribute wares. (From the book copper and bronze in art by David Scott The existence of malachite formation over a layer of cuprite is supported by analytical and metallographic studies, is a good indication of the authenticity of an artifact.) As far as the bottoms they have the correct sesame seed size and shape spur marks and the foot ring are correct also the crackle and glaze is correct. The true Imperial Ru ware the foot ring are unglazed they were fired flat in the kiln and there all the same color celadon. Go to my website you'll see better photos so you can get a close look. Chinesemasterpieces.com The piece that you are showing is really in poor condition not a good example of Ru ware. Good luck to you |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: pipane Sat, May 07, 2016 Yes of course... |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: pipane Sat, May 07, 2016 Hello there, |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Corey Fri, May 06, 2016 Pipane, may I ask on what occasions you have handled genuine Ru ware and if you have knowledge in this field? I hold a pair of celadon mallow-petal washers with millet shaped spur-marks, that I think may come from one of the recently discovered ru kilns. |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Sat, May 07, 2016 Hello Pipane |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: pipane Tue, Jun 14, 2016 @Corey |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Wed, Jun 15, 2016 Pipane |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: pipane Thu, Jun 16, 2016 Man, I feel sorry to tell you that you are wrapping yourself in your own delusion... (is that even English?sorry for that too) |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Sun, Jun 19, 2016 The Chinese people have been collecting for thousands of years.They passed down their collection to the next generation. Now that China has opened up many fine pieces have reached the market place. The fire gilded bands in my collection can not be faked because they are corroded with layer Cuprite and Malachite(From the book Copper and bronze in art by David Scott The existence of malachite formation over a layer of cuprite is supported by analytical and metallographic studies, is a good indication of the authenticity of an artifact.) LOOK IT UP. It's more reliable than a TL test. Its very apparent your knowledge about jade is very limited. There are no chemicals that will penetrate nephrite jade to create burial inclusions because jade is a fibrous material. It takes a very long time being buried for the elements in the ground to seep into the jade material to create burial inclusions. They have been dying jades from the Ming dynasty but the dye can't penetrate the stone because its fibrous, the dye just lays on top. Jadeite can be dyed it's not a fibrous stone. As far as the Ding Ware in my collection they have the fire gilded bands that are corroded with layered cuprite and malachite. The clay they used had a very low iron content that's why they do not turn brown after firing. Some pieces show a slight pink cast in the biscuit. |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: pipane Tue, Jun 21, 2016 So be it. |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Wed, Jun 22, 2016 Because Cuprite layered with Malachite on top can only be produced in nature. That's why it is proof that my collection is from the Song Dynasty and even the National Palace museum agreed. To many people don’t take the time to educate themself and they spew out false rumors without facts to back them up. As far as Jade is concerned It's a fact they cannot reproduce burial inclusion that penetrate the jade such as rivers, veins, clouding, russet, calcification, inclusions, or the greenish color when jade is buried with bronze, In Nephrite Jade this can't be done with dyes or chemicals. and if they tried they would stick out like a sore thumb. Nephrite jade is a tough fibrous aggregate stone it's scratch resistant it can't be scratch with a steel knife. You must check the surface ware and the tool marks with a loupe these things all help to identify ancient and archaic pieces. Many people are afraid to buy jade because people spread rumors about dying and chemicals and believe they can fake anything, that's just not true. There is different qualities of nephrite jade and the more translucent jades are the finest. Just remember it's a slow process to create burial inclusions there's only one way to cheat bury the piece and hope you live longer than any man on earth. |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: pipane Tue, Sep 20, 2016 Please educate me... |
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Subject:THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Thu, Sep 22, 2016 After several emails and photos back and forth The Palace Museum was afraid to change the direction of not showing the public the real Imperial northern Song Dynasty Imperial Ru ware to the world that was hoarded away. This is just another cover-up that the auction house and Museums are afraid to show because of all the money involved. What you see in Museums is not the finest pieces that the Chinese produced. Go to my web site and you will learn the truth at Chinesemasterpieces.com Below is the last email they sent me. And they clearly agreed they are from the Song Dynasty. |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Sat, Sep 24, 2016 October 29, 2015 |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Corey Mon, Sep 26, 2016 I forgot to follow up on this thread. The washers I have, pictured below, are definitely old. Possibly even older than song dynasty, but of course most likely some other kind of celadon ware for example yueyao or xingyao. Pretty much everything about them points in the direction of ruyao though. But then again they only have super-high value if they are truly imperial pieces. For the scientific analysis regarding their identification I will stick to the methods described in the article linked to below. Thank you! |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Corey Sun, Oct 22, 2017 Just adding a couple of notes to myself regarding the pair of washers I have since I just stumpled upon an identical washer available at a Japanese auction where it is not described as antique (lot no. 1006): |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: David. F Sat, Dec 03, 2016 Dear Joseph, I'm a dealer and also collector for the ceramic pieces from all period for almost 30 years. I was lived at Taiwan for almost 20 years, and went to China and Hong Kong very often for business purpose, but I was born in Indonesia, so here we are back to my country. Your Ru ware it's very interested to me, also some is look authentic from long distance to me, the other seems must have a close examination, but all is looks great, even some pieces is out of my knowledge. Congratulation for have these treasure. Best regards, David |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Tue, Dec 13, 2016 Thank you for your kind words David. You can get more information at my website Chinesemasterpieces.com |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Alfred Fri, Feb 03, 2017 Hello Mr. Sharon |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Sat, Feb 04, 2017 Hello Alfred |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: richard severson Fri, Oct 13, 2017 Joseph - I know your right and Thank you for making this great website and videos, Auction houses are all in the same bed together, I will have the same trouble with them on my Shang dynasty bronzes, I do appreciate your hard work and collection - just wanted to say Thank you - rich |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Fri, Oct 13, 2017 Richard,thank you for your comment. |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: JLim Fri, Oct 13, 2017
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: M Thu, Nov 02, 2017 WHEN did your pieces came directly from China? |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Fri, Dec 08, 2017 watch the video |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: MJ Thu, Dec 21, 2017 None of your videos elaborate on anything about apparently when your pieces came directly from China or when you acquire your first piece of supposed Ru ware. |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Thu, Jan 11, 2018 Mj |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: MJ Sat, Jan 13, 2018 Yes I sent you a photo of one of my jade items, which I appreciated your reply, which on the surface was on the right track, but I only sent it because I was curious to see what you’d say, having seen you on YouTube, asianart.com etc before. It’s difficult to date jade, and that piece I showed you has been in the hands of Antiques Roadshow experts, who still couldn’t come to a decision. |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Joseph Sharon Tue, Jan 16, 2018 You don't understand because you didn't take the time to read my website. I would gladly have TL testing or thermoluminescence dating if they would allow double blind testing to be preformed. I have not found a lab willing to do double blind testing. If anyone knows a of a lab that would allow me to due double blind testing please let me know. I'm willing to sit down with any expert in Ru ware to inspect my collection. |
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Subject:Re: THE RU/JU KILN PRODUCED THREE TYPES OF IMPORTANT WARES
Posted By: Ian Wed, Jan 17, 2018 Hello to all who have posted on this thread: |
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