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Subject:qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: conor mcgregor Sun, Apr 10, 2016 IP: 173.71.12.237

Any thoughts and opinions will be appreciated. thank you

Little sticker say foothill heirlooms with a 37 in the middle.







Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: TD Mon, Apr 11, 2016

Google "Qianlong nine dragons vase" and see similar examples. Take it to an Asian ceramics expert for a hands-on examination.
You did not mention how you've come across this vase. This information can be vital in helping to date this piece.

Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: Corey Mon, Apr 11, 2016

Sure it's foothill, not fonthill?

Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: Corey Tue, Apr 12, 2016

You bought in at Kaminski Auctions?

https://www.kaminskiauctions.com/servlet/Search.do?auctionId=92&itemId=45673


Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: Conor mcgregor Wed, Apr 13, 2016

Hi, no I did not, I sent these pictures of this vase to a couple of Experts a couple months ago. I'm assuming this auction house attained the pictures and made a fake listing of it. Most likely a scam auction house.

Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: John R Thu, Apr 14, 2016

Now that's a really interesting story.
An auction house [supposedly reputable] pretended
to sell your vase for $15.000.00
First the vase is really beautiful, faked or not.
It is inspired by the 13th Century painting by
Chen Rong of 9 Dragons that resides in the Boston
Museum of Art. The Qianlong Emperor was proud to
have owned this painting, attested to by his command
to have a court artist create another smaller copy of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Dragons_(painting)
Were his court artists ordered to create a version of it in ceramic? Probably. Can you prove that you still own it?

Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: Stan Thu, Apr 14, 2016

Kaminiski is a reputable auction house outside Boston, MA. I've purchased objects in their auctions.

Cheers,
Stan

Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: susan fentress Mon, Apr 18, 2016

Do you have any other photos of the vase--such as looking down on he neck portion?

Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: conor mcgregor Fri, Apr 22, 2016

pic. please ignore the color change due to poor lighting

View post on imgur.com

Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: TD Thu, Apr 21, 2016

Evidence suggests you're a fraud. I'll bet this is the last time you post under the pseudonym "Conor McGregor." Did you tweet about his retirement too?

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Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: Conor mcgregor Fri, Apr 22, 2016

I'm just a fan of mcgregor, why would I put my real name. I don't understand why you would throw these baseless accusations. This is my vase and I sure as hell did not purchase it from kaminski. I have no reason to lie about that. I've had the vase for months, here is a pic of the neck. I would take a new pic with the name "Conor mcgregor" but it is currently at a secure facility, and I don't want to go get it just to take a pic

Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: e h Mon, Oct 17, 2016

Congratulation is a beautiful vase. New or old doesn't matter. i wll be very happy to own it.

Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: Corey Fri, Apr 07, 2017

Yes, it's a very beautiful vase, seemingly authentic, and if so; also highly valuable. I wanted to post the relevant links, but was waiting for others to reply first, and then strange thing with Kaminski messed up things further. But the vase luckily bears a sticker that read FONTHILL HERILOOM and a number (looks like 37), making it easy to trace the provenance, which in this case is rather impressive. From a description in a listing at Bonham's:

"The Fonthill Heirlooms remains one of the most facinating groups of Imperial Qing porcelain and works of art formed by a European in the 19th Century. It was originally collected by Alfred Morrison, the London-based Member of Parliament, who was an active purchaser during the last decades of the 19th Century, when Chinese and Japanese art were both culturally very much at the forefront of aesthetic tastes as pioneered by artistic taste-formers like James Whistler and Oscar Wilde, and also available in rather larger quantities than previously. The Fonthill Heirlooms became particularly well-known because Alfred Morrison was apparently able to buy a substantial quantity of Chinese art from Lord Loch of Drylaw. Before ennoblement, Lord Loch had been an aide-de-camp of Lord Elgin, British Minister Plenipotentiary in charge of the Western military campaign in China which culminated in the sacking of the Summer Palace in 1860. It appears that Mr Morrison bought, still packed in the original campaign chests, the mementoes which Lord Loch had brought back from Beijing. However, it is unclear how much of the Fonthill Heirlooms formed part of this purchase traceable directly back to the sacking, and how much was subsequently acquired by Mr Morrison from London antique dealers emerging into leading taste creators around the new antique dealing areas of Belgravia, Mayfair and Bond Street"

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/10430/lot/7/

But the most notable recent sale from that collection was of course THE FONTHILL DRAGON JAR, that sat a new world record for Qing dynasty monochromes at Sotheby's in 2014:

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/2014/the-fonthill-dragon-jar-hk0560.html

And then there are the similar vases sold through the major houses.

A marked one at Bonham's:

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/18981/lot/170/?category=list&length=10&page=17

An unmarked one at Sotheby's:

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2008/fine-chinese-ceramics-and-works-of-art-hk0269/lot.2923.html

And another unmarked one at Sotheby's, but with the highest pre-sale estimate of those that can be found online:

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2011/fine-chinese-ceramics-and-works-of-art-hk0363/lot.1951.html

As can be read in lot notes similar examples are represented in both the imperial collection and in the Metropolitan Museum of Art, two of the worlds foremost museums when it comes to Chinese art. One of the examples in the imperial collection is even a Qianlong marked blue and white version and possibly the counterpart of a pair to the vase shown here, and if the Fonthill provenance can be confirmed, this vase surely is a highly covetted imperial treasure.

I don't know how to compare the red, blue and white vases linked to here, but I could imagine that the Chinese purist would value the classical blue and white version higher, which is also suggested by a sale at Bonham's in 2010, where a Chinese buyer paid £5m for a vase of related form an decoration unidentifyed as a mark and period piece, but listed as republic period and estimated at £10-15:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1338790/Chinese-dragon-vase-sells-5m-nearly-800-times-estimate.html

A year has passed since this thread went dead, but it would be very interesting to hear what actually has happened with the vase since then.







Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: Corey Sun, Apr 23, 2017

Funny coincidence. After I posted the last message in this thread a vase almost identical to that of Conor mcgregor came up for sale in Chicago with a very low estimate at $200-$400, made into a lamp, but not drilled through the base:

https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/52325047_two-chinese-blue-and-white-porcelain-vases

Unfortunately I didn't get the winning bid.

Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: Corey Thu, Jul 20, 2017

And another example of a Qianlong marked b&W 9 dragon vase dated to the 20th century, with an estimate at €1000-1500 euro, but sold for €1750000:

http://www.neret-tessier.com/html/fiche.jsp?id=4505864&np=&lng=fr&npp=150&ordre=&aff=&r=

Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: Corey Tue, Aug 15, 2017

One at Marchant Auctions also:

http://marchantauctions.hibid.com/lot/30305860/-1-chinese-dragon-vase-qianlong-mark-and-period/?ref=catalog

Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: JLim Thu, Sep 07, 2017



Some arses need to be kicked around here, there's no doubt about that. Let's not forget what happened on this site around 2014 when the Yahoo Fraudster was trying to wreck the place. These things have to be nipped in the bud early, that's for sure.

Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: Corey Fri, Sep 22, 2017

What do you mean with that? Could you please specify your statement? Whose arses need to be kicked around? And who was the yahoo fraudster who tried to wreck the place in 2014?

Subject:Re: qianlong mark and period vase
Posted By: JLim Sat, Sep 23, 2017



Here is the necessary record:

https://www.asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=72479

https://www.asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=72638

As you can all no doubt deduce this forum could easily be taken down if someone like the Yahoo Fraudster was truly persistent. Thus, vigilance must be maintained.

Rgds
Jonathan


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