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Subject:Japanese Cloisonne Makers Marks
Posted By: Howard Dennis Sun, Mar 20, 2016 IP: 73.216.185.109

I'm traveling and don't have any way to post pictures but maybe someone can help me anyway. Just acquired 2 miniature vases with the most incredible micro detail I've ever seen. The bottoms have bright red marks that I can't tell if it is red lacquer brush strokes or wireless. I can best describe the mark as Mt. Fuji or an inverted V with a line or Ichi stroke underneath. I spent the night online but all traces of makers marks seems to have been pulled off the net?? Maybe someone has books or copies of the marks that were online last year?

Thanks for any help, Howard Dennis

I promise I'll post pictures when I get home.

Subject:Re: Japanese Cloisonne Makers Marks
Posted By: Howard Dennis Fri, Mar 25, 2016

No one has a book with Japanese Cloisonné Makers marks they can look in to help out a fellow collector??

Subject:Re: Japanese Cloisonne Makers Marks
Posted By: Howard Dennis Fri, Mar 25, 2016

Here's the best I can do with a cell phone.

Howard Dennis



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Subject:Re: Japanese Cloisonne Makers Marks
Posted By: Bill H Sat, Mar 26, 2016

Well even if we do have a book, experience with others lacking patience around here suggests it's wise to wait until you get home and post photos so we won't have to consult the book more than once on your behalf.
BH

Subject:Re: Japanese Cloisonne Makers Marks
Posted By: Bill H Sun, Mar 27, 2016

The only time I recall seeing that mark anywhere was in this brief and inconclusive forum thread. The mark (亼) is not a regularly used Japanese or Chinese character as far as I know, although it is an alternate form of the Chinese 集 (ji), meaning "to gather". Perhaps someone else has a fresh idea.

Best regards,

Bill H.

URL Title :Cloisonne Mark


Subject:Re: Japanese Cloisonne Makers Marks
Posted By: Howard Dennis Sun, Mar 27, 2016

Bill, That's the mark, Thanks for posting it but boy what a difference in quality and subject matter. Mine purely Japanese subject, no bubbles, detail so small I need magnification to see it all and silver wire construction, literally worlds apart from the Egyptian motif vase.

Howard

Subject:Re: Japanese Cloisonne Makers Marks
Posted By: Claus Tue, Mar 29, 2016

The mark could also be Korean 스 but that's just a guess. I passed a Korean restaurant today and saw this character on a sign and remembered the posting on the forum.

Subject:Could we actually see the vases sometime?
Posted By: beadiste Tue, Mar 29, 2016

Even if it's just a couple more cellphone pix.

Or were you planning a reply with better photos?

Subject:Re: Japanese Cloisonne Makers Marks
Posted By: Howard Dennis Tue, Mar 29, 2016

Got this remark on a forum for Japanese swords and other antiques:
I think that Steve is correct. These things are called "YAGO" and they were like house crests for common families. They were still being used in rural Japan in the 1980s to mark family gear. They let everyone bring dishes and clothes to group events and they would get all their own stuff back home. They were certainly used in Edo times, too, of course. The interesting thing to me was that these were created and read rather like kanji. But they were also somewhat simpler than formal kanji. Thus a family with the surname -say - Yamamoto, could draw a picture of a mountain that would be read "YAMA." Then the oldest son's family could put an ichi in that picture of a mountain. It then became a symbol that could be read "Yama Ichi." And that houses' stuff could be differentiated from the property of the stuff belonging to the house that descended from the second son. Their stuff would be marked with a 2 under the picture of the mountain. That yago would be read "Yama-Ni".

Merchants and dealers also used these things and you see them today on things like soy sauce and sake.

Bottom line, Howard, is that I think this mark is a statement about who used to own this vase rather than who made it.

Peter

Subject:Re: Japanese Cloisonne Makers Marks
Posted By: Howard Dennis Wed, Mar 30, 2016

I was waiting till I could show the incredible tiny detail on the neck and bottom but this is the best I can do with a phone.
Howard Dennis





Subject:Awesome! Thanks.
Posted By: beadiste Fri, Apr 01, 2016

They look so monumental - as if they ought to be much larger pieces. Lucky you!

Subject:Re: Japanese Cloisonne Makers Marks
Posted By: Howard Dennis Wed, Mar 30, 2016

Just got 2 more pictures. The vases are 5 3/4 inches tall and the top and area on the bottom in these pictures is just slightly larger than a quarter! To show how incredibly small the detail is I didn't even see the ying/yang circles until I took these pictures. This is the kind of detail I love about Japanese artwork.

Howard Dennis





Subject:Re: Japanese Cloisonne Makers Marks
Posted By: Howard Dennis Tue, Feb 19, 2019

Got the "Family Mark" response to my quest for translation a while back and it seemed likely until this showed up on the internet. A pair of larger vases with almost identical themes have a very similar mark and label on the bottom as mine and yet I'm positive they have never been together except maybe when they were made.
Anyone have any other translations or information?

Howard Dennis






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