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Subject:Small japanese cloissonne box.
Posted By: guido Wed, Sep 30, 2020 IP: 2001:8003:4f08:b801:

Hi Members,
any opinions as to age and area of manufacture,
and use for this type of box? size 95cmx 47cm.

Regards Guido.







Subject:Re: Small japanese cloissonne box.
Posted By: Edmund Prinz Wed, Sep 30, 2020

Thats a russian one i could swear - they often used gilt silver - have that checked.
First look for some hallmarks.
Not much experience with russian cloisonne so a guess about the age is uncertain; maybe beginning 20th. ( around 1900 )
Greetings
Edmund

Subject:Re: Small japanese cloissonne box.
Posted By: Guido Thu, Oct 01, 2020

Hi Edmund
Many thanks for your thoughts and opinion.
I am not sure that you are correct.
It will be interesting to see what others say.
What I can say,it is definitely not Russian.
Regards Guido.

Subject:Re: Small japanese cloissonne box.
Posted By: Edmund Prinz Fri, Oct 02, 2020

Hello;
maybe i´m wrong with it - the naturalistic style of the leafs and on a white ground and the more sunken filling of the pits brought me to that; but really not sure.
Regards
Edmund

Subject:Re: Small japanese cloissonne box.
Posted By: guido Thu, Oct 01, 2020

Hi Edmund
Many thanks for your thoughts and opinion.
I do not feel you are correct about this box being Russian,I would be interested I others thoughts,

I have posted a box I have ,that was made in Armenia ,that was part of the Soviet Union.

This will give you an idea of the Russia style of cloisonne. This one is silver ,markers mark unknown at this stage.
Regards Guido.








Subject:Re: Small japanese cloissonne box.
Posted By: Edmund Prinz Fri, Oct 02, 2020

Hello;
Russia is quite somewhat huge; european, asian, oriental even some native art influences - but like i said i´m not certain about it.
Most japanese and chinese cloisonne is smoothly polished after filling those pits; your white box seems merely filled up like this green blueish one.
But i guess someone is around who knows for sure.
Friendly regards
Edmund

Subject:Re: Small japanese cloissonne box.
Posted By: guido Fri, Oct 02, 2020

Hi Edmund
Again many thanks for your thoughts about my box.
I am always happy with suggestions from others.

My box might be done in,what is called Doro Shippo
The use of lower fired enamels. 500-600 degrees centigrade. A dull ,matt finished was used, (glossy look in pitting) where the grinding did not reach,tells us that the dull finish was done in the polishing.

not polished shiny on purpose .


This method was first done 1830-1870,and also later,1945+
It is a question is my box is one of the earlier ones or a later one after 1945.

As the gilding on my box looks to be the earlier method (mercury gilding ,around base not all gilded) Rather than electroplated ,which would be everywhere (around base) my box may be earlier than later ,is my guess. (I may be wrong)

You can see the gilding under the box,it is not covering the whole base.

Regards Guido.







Subject:Re: Small japanese cloissonne box.
Posted By: Edmund Prinz Sat, Oct 03, 2020

Yes; "mud enamel" i know it as. Its fired a short time for around 830 C. if i remember it right; may be the case here.
Firegilt ( mercury ) for sure - it builds a thicker layer or "blotches" in grooves, one can see well on the fotos.
That was some deadly business; i would say it is a mid 19th piece then; when they werent aware of the dangers or didnt care.
in point of style and finish i´m not sure of its origins.
Greetings Edmund


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Subject:Re: Small japanese cloissonne box.
Posted By: guido Sun, Oct 04, 2020

Hi Edmund
many thanks for your comments.
I had not heard the term mud enamel,before.
I just have a feeling that it is not made after 1945,it feels like an earlier piece.

The problem is that there were a lot of small makers all over Japan doing these sort of boxes,that it is probably impossible to find out the maker.

Part of the fun of collecting is researching these things.

Kind regards Guido.


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