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Subject:Daoist Immortal Dongfang Shuo - how to transliterate correctly?:
Posted By: Bill H Thu, Sep 03, 2020 IP: 2601:342:200:6e70:59

Being rather lame in language and other matters Japanese, I would again appreciate the assistance of those erudite Masters who have kindly assisted in such matters previously. In that regard, here are photos of the Japanese Satsuma-style vision of a Chinese Daoist Immortal named Dongfang Shuo (東方朔) and the box he came in. I'd asked the forum about this guy a decade ago but still have a couple of lingering questions.

First, I've come up with two versions of how his name may be transliterated, 'Tobo Saku" and "Toho Saku), so wonder which is correct.

Second, the cover of the box has two stacks of characters, the righthand stack reading in Chinese 'Satsuma Dongfang shuo' (薩摩東方朔), and the left-hand one having the characters '御置物', which I believe might be translated in Japanese as "Imperial Okimono" or perhaps less regally as "Okimono of a Divinity'. As is the case here in Japanese, Chinese specific meanings tend to depend on the character preceding '置物', such as '装置物' - (zhuang zhi wu), 'fixture or installation'. And my question here, is what is meant by the preceding '御', the meaning of which could be 'Imperial', 'Divine' or something else.

Best regards,

Bill H.







Subject:Re: Daoist Immortal Dongfang Shuo - how to transliterate correctly?:
Posted By: I.Nagy Fri, Sep 04, 2020

Dear Bill,
東方朔 - Tōhō Saku and
御置物 - Go-okimono - Ornament object

Honorific prefix 御 "go" in Japanese is used to add a feeling of politeness and refined taste. By no means does it mean "imperial" in this case. Sometimes, the Chinese characters also have different meanings and uses in the Japanese.

With regards,
I.Nagy

Subject:Re: Daoist Immortal Dongfang Shuo - how to transliterate correctly?:
Posted By: Bill H Fri, Sep 04, 2020

Bountiful thanks, I. Nagy. We're on the cusp of our annual Labor Day celebration in the USA, which makes me even more keenly appreciative of your intensive labor on behalf of the international community found hanging around this forum.

I went looking for examples and found the suitable adjective 'Venerable' associated with '御' as in 'Venerable Monk' '御坊' and which seems also to be transliterated as 'Go' in that context, though your confirmation would be most welcome.

Much obliged,

Bill H.


Subject:Re: Daoist Immortal Dongfang Shuo - how to transliterate correctly?:
Posted By: I.Nagy Sat, Sep 05, 2020

Dear Bill,
I think that in case of 坊, instead of 御 the hiragana お "o" prefix is more appropriate.
In vernacular Japanese the お坊さん o-bō-san  - priest, monk - form is commonly used.
However, the use of oshō 和尚 or oshō-sama 和尚様 form is more polite specially in case of higher ranking Buddhist priests.

Cheers,
I.Nagy

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Subject:Re: Daoist Immortal Dongfang Shuo - how to transliterate correctly?:
Posted By: Bill H Sun, Sep 06, 2020

Many thanks for the clarification.

Best regards,

Bill H.


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