Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries


Visitors' Forum

Asian Art  Forums - Reply Message
Asian Art Forums

Message Listing by Date:
Message Index | Back | Post a New Message | Search | Private Mail | FAQ
Subject:Weird Japanese Porcelain Mark
Posted By: Bill H Sat, Aug 15, 2020 IP: 2601:342:200:6e70:e1

I came across this Japanese dish on eBay and am intrigued by the mark, though not the dish itself, due to damage. The characters are:

大清翟正年製

The character '翟' seems not to be in widespread use in Japan. In Chinese, the MDBG online dictionary gives it as:

'Di' "Long-tailed pheasant"

'Di' Surname

'Di' variant of 狄, generic name for northern ethnic minorities during the Qin and Han Dynasties (221 BC-220 AD)

'Zhai' Surname

Perhaps I. Nagi or another of our Japanese porcelain mavens has the resources to expand a bit on this one.

Thanks,

Bill H

Link :Japanese Dish


Post a Reply
Name:
Email:
Group: China & Japan
Subject:
Message:
Link URL:
Enter here the complete URL of any site, page or image you would like to show other visitors.
URL Title:
Enter here the title of the link you've given above. This will appear to the visitor. Eg., if you are linking another picture, enter "Another picture". The link will not appear without a title.
Image URL:
Enter here the URL of an image if it is already uploaded on the web. The image will appear with your posting. Do not post pictures which are not yours without permission from the copyright holder. It is the responsibility of each poster to make sure they have permission to use any photos they post.
Image: You may upload up to three images. If you would like to upload more images to this message please do so by replying to this same message.

Please make sure the file type is JPEG or GIF and the filename does not contain spaces.





Use the Browse button to find an image (jpg or gif) on a local drive on your computer to upload for including with your message. Do not upload images with file names containing spaces. Please do not upload files larger than 500 KB in size. Do not post pictures which are not yours without permission from the copyright holder. It is the responsibility of each poster to make sure they have permission to use any photos they post. Check the "email notification" box below if you would like to be notified of any responses to your message.
Check here for email notification.
Security Code: Security Image: please enter the text appears in this image.

Please type in the code you see in the image directly above this input box.

Subject:Re: Weird Japanese Porcelain Mark
Posted By: Bill H Sun, Aug 16, 2020

I'd sent a courtesy note to the eBay seller advising my concerns and intent, and they promptly pulled the listing with thanks, disrupting the link I'd included here. So I'm including a couple of pictures below FYI.

Bill H.





Subject:Re: Weird Japanese Porcelain Mark
Posted By: I.Nagy Sun, Aug 16, 2020

It should be;
大清雍正製 - Da Qing Yongzheng -zhi

雍正 Yongzheng  - reign name of Qing emperor 1722-1735

Sure 雍 and 翟 characters are similar to each other when hand written.

Cheers,
I.Nagy

Subject:Re: Weird Japanese Porcelain Mark
Posted By: Bill H Sun, Aug 16, 2020

I. Nagy, your comments are much appreciated. But do you think the calligrapher simply made a mistake or would the incorrect character have been used on purpose? I haven't found anything to indicate that 雍 and 翟 are interchangeable in Chinese or Japanese.

Also, the 雍 character seems to have quite a few conventional meanings in Japanese, whereas 翟 seems only to come up in a handful in either Chinese or Japanese dictionaries, such as 墨翟 / Bokuteki, an unclassified Japanese name, which doesn't apparently compare phonetically with 雍. The two characters also turn up in a kind of Japanese ink, apparently sepia for Sumi-e use (see link below). Otherwise, there seems to be little use for this character in Japan, especially when 雍 is around to serve its original function.

Any other thoughts on this enigma?

Much obliged,

Bill H.

P.S. My apologies for misspelling your name at the outset.

https://www.mercari.com/jp/items/m38447259937/

Subject:Re: Weird Japanese Porcelain Mark
Posted By: I.Nagy Mon, Aug 17, 2020

Dear Bill,
It agree that the 雍 and 翟 characters are not interchangeable. Now, that I can see the clearly written marking itself, I can only add that it may have been the unpurposed mistake of the painter.
For Japanese the character 雍 yō was not much familiar in everyday use, therefore he might have confused it with the right side of the character
曜 yō - which is a very often used character in everyday life and their readings are "yō” alike.
This type of erratum can often be found in Japanese and Chinese texts.

With regards,
I.Nagy

Subject:Re: Weird Japanese Porcelain Mark
Posted By: Bill H Mon, Aug 17, 2020

I much appreciate the confirmation. Chinese calligraphers of past centuries are well known for their mistakes (not to mention a certain contributor to this forum named Bill), but this is the only apparent example I've seen on a Japanese plate. Wonder if the guy escaped with just a retraining course. :o

Cheers,

Bill H.


Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries |