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Subject:blue and white dragon bowl
Posted By: Shea Tue, Apr 23, 2019 IP: 173.79.179.28

Hello forum members,
I hope someone can help me with identification and age of this bowl. When it was first delivered from the auction house, I opened the package and thought "wow, this looks new". But then I viewed it through my magnifier and found bubble bursts primarily where the underglaze blue is the darkest and there appears to be iron spots. The turn marks are visible and when I rub my hand on the exterior of the bowl it isn't smooth but almost lumpy in areas. There appears to be minimal crazing and the glaze has an immense amount of bubbles. The foot rim doesn't look like any others I've found. It actually looks like it may have been cleaned and the minor chips have no rough edges and are smooth to the touch. The bowl has a diameter of about 10 inches and is about 5 inches deep. Any insight is appreciated.







Subject:Re: blue and white dragon bowl
Posted By: Bill H Mon, Apr 29, 2019

This may not respond directly to your query but hopefully will help you make up your own mind about the age and authenticity of your purchase.

The first link below shows an eBay auction from Mainland China with a ten-inch diameter variant version of your bowl featuring red external glaze and much the same painting in the cavetto. The seller has it listed as an antique and claims it's Ming-era from a small village in China. The asking price is US$498 plus US$50 for shipping. Really cheap for nice Ming, I'd say.

The second link below, from the same seller, shows another ten-inch bowl with your same external motif but a qilin pattern in the cavetto. This is typical of how Chinese porcelain makers mix it up by issuing variant patterns like these. Early in the 21st century they were making clones of 18th century famille rose export patterns and slipping them into the US market in matching pairs via cooperative eBay sellers and live internet auctions. Some of these early fakes were fairly good but most were detectable as new and somewhat easy to spot because of being sold in pairs. Now, the fakes are getting better and harder to spot, with the practice of selling them in pairs seemingly less in vogue.

Keep in mind an important point: No matter how high a price a Mainland seller may ask or what kind of claims they make when pitching their product to foreign markets, any true antique is apt to be worth vastly more when sold on China's domestic auction circuit. If you don't believe it, just look at the mega-prices Chinese buyers are plunking down for authentic items being sold by Sotheby's and Christies.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Delicate-Chinese-Ming-Dynasty-Blue-White-Porcelain-Dragon-Bowl/323653229550?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Delicate-Chinese-Ming-Dynasty-Blue-White-Porcelain-kylin-Bowl/223329431835?

Best regards,

Bill H.

Subject:Re: blue and white dragon bowl
Posted By: Shea Mon, Apr 29, 2019

Bill that is great information. It is consistent with much of the information I have begun reading about items sold in China on the US market.
I will definitely review the links you've provided but I think I know the answer to my question, even though I really didn't want to believe it. The bowl is from the same auction where I bought a "Chinese jade" carving that I immediately recognized as soapstone as soon as I touched it.
Another lesson learned; I will never buy from that auction house again.
Thank you for responding and providing me with references. It is much appreciated.

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Subject:Re: blue and white dragon bowl
Posted By: Bill H Mon, Apr 29, 2019

I took a further look into the liveauctioneers website and tend to believe I've found your bowl's actual auction record (link). If not, it's almost a clone and likely from the same contemporary Mainland China source. It fetched a hammer price that seems to me to be a fair one vis-à-vis its probable decorative value. I also found several related patterns in smaller and larger bowls dating back to 2017.

Best regards,

Bill H.

URL Title :BW Dragon Bowl


Subject:Re: blue and white dragon bowl
Posted By: Shea Tue, Apr 30, 2019

Thanks Bill. I will send you a private message.


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