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Subject:Dehua Blue And White - Can anyone read the mark?
Posted By: JLim Sun, Nov 12, 2017 IP: 101.164.192.17



Hi all

I've got quite a hankering for collecting Dehua porcelain; especially given my ancestors' village in Hokkien is only a couple miles from Dehua haha. But the famous Dehua Blanc-de-Chine porcelain is very difficult to date. Therefore I'm avoiding it for the moment.

The only example of Dehua that I own, in fact, is the below pictured blue and white object. It was sold to me as 18th century/Transitional era Dehua. The main feature that makes it likely to be Dehua is the feel of the porcelain, especially at the footrim - it is quite heavy and dense compared to Jingdezhen, and at the footrim is very white and slightly "doughy" in texture - quite unlike the crisp texture of standard issue Kangxi from Jingdezhen.

I am hoping that the bizarre cartoony dragon and the curly clouds are clues to help identify this as genuine Dehua? Is that what this is, and what date should I assign to this?

The other issue is that I cannot find the mark anywhere in Davison. I believe it is a shop mark, but can anyone out there read it? I think the first word is Quan.

Thank you all in advance.

Kind regards
J.Lim







Subject:Re: Dehua Blue And White - Can anyone read the mark?
Posted By: JLim Mon, Nov 13, 2017



Further pictures.





Subject:Re: Dehua Blue And White - Can anyone read the mark?
Posted By: RogerD Wed, Nov 15, 2017

Not sure, but I think the feet of the five-clawed dragon appear at the bottom of the second picture.
Sorry, I couldn't resist the desire to comment.

Subject:Re: Dehua Blue And White - Can anyone read the mark?
Posted By: mikeoz Mon, Nov 13, 2017

a decent face-on shot of the mark would be a help. And in focus, please.

Subject:Re: Dehua Blue And White - Can anyone read the mark?
Posted By: Bill H Mon, Nov 13, 2017

A little dim, but possibly a person's name that reads down as 金利 - Jin Li - with Jin being a surname.

Best regards,

Bill H.

Subject:Re: Dehua Blue And White - Can anyone read the mark?
Posted By: Endre Mon, Nov 13, 2017

JLim, I’m not sure but I think it says blue de Hue. I think it is flaming pearls and dragon. I hope that helps a little for maybe further research, I may be wrong. Very cool bowl!

Subject:Re: Dehua Blue And White - Can anyone read the mark?
Posted By: Endre Mon, Nov 13, 2017

Correction, noi phu is the marking for imperial court on blue de Hue porcelain for Vietnamese market. I think so, don’t know the date

Subject:Re: Dehua Blue And White - Can anyone read the mark?
Posted By: JLim Tue, Nov 14, 2017



Thank you all for your help. New photographs below, taken with my abomination of a camera.

Endre, I understand blue de hue marks can be written oddly, but I don't see the resemblance to the noi phu mark, nor a resemblance to bleu de hue style dragons?

Bill, thanks for your translation but the first word does not look like Jin to me, on account of lacking the little "whiskers" above the base line.

Kind regards
J.Lim





Subject:Re: Dehua Blue And White - Can anyone read the mark?
Posted By: Endre Tue, Nov 14, 2017

You all know more about this than myself, and the flaming pearls gave me the suspicion. I did see a Dehua bowl like yours on trocadero, it is very similar, but with a different claws on the dragon and different mark. They are asking 750 dollars. It has very good photos to compare, it is under blanc de chine blue and white. Seller is ESL in San Francisco.

Subject:Re: Dehua Blue And White - Can anyone read the mark?
Posted By: Endre Tue, Nov 14, 2017

J.Lim, here is photos from trocadero. I’m sorry to post picture of pictures, but I think this will assist you. I don’t know how to do linking. It looks like a near perfect match. Very cool





Subject:Re: Dehua Blue And White - Can anyone read the mark?
Posted By: rat Tue, Nov 14, 2017

well, your other option is 全利, but that doesn't make obvious sense as far as I can tell

Subject:Re: Dehua Blue And White - Can anyone read the mark?
Posted By: JLim Wed, Nov 15, 2017



Dear Endre

Thank you very much. That is a remarkably similar dish; it presumably even came from the same workshop. I am fascinated by the fact that the mark is completely different; perhaps this workshop allowed personal names of artists on the bottoms? Alternatively the same artist may have worked for multiple workshops, or the workshop may have changed logos.

The etched surname in the glaze is interesting, for Anthony Allen believes this form of identification commenced only around 1790 and ended around 1900. That might make my dish a bit later than Kangxi. However, the etching may have been done in a later generation.

I cannot remember if I bought my dish from the same seller; I may well have done. But I paid nowhere near 750 dollars, as I recall.

Kind regards
J.Lim

Subject:Re: Dehua Blue And White - Can anyone read the mark?
Posted By: Endre Thu, Nov 16, 2017

Your welcome, I was very happy when I saw this one for you- I think it is great that you have a very nice looking bowl from your heritage!

Subject:Re: Dehua Blue And White - Can anyone read the mark?
Posted By: Bill H Thu, Nov 16, 2017

Well, I was half-right. Quan Li (全利), without the fuzz-factor.

Can't say if it's any relationship, but go to the following Christies site and search "quanli laodian".

Bill H.

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