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Subject:large bowl with script
Posted By: david Fri, Nov 03, 2017 IP: 2607:fea8:1d5f:f819:

Hello, Can someone please give me a date on this large 11 1/8" dia x 2 1/2" high bowl? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated! Thank you! David.







Subject:Re: large bowl with script
Posted By: JLim Sat, Nov 04, 2017



Am I right in classifying this as 19th century Vietnamese blue and white?

Kind regards
J.Lim

Subject:Re: large bowl with script
Posted By: JLim Sat, Nov 04, 2017



Actually scratch that - this may be Minyao (Kitchen Qing). Allen says that the crackle glaze on such objects may be unusual (Detection Of Fakes p59).

Kind regards
J.Lim

Subject:Re: large bowl with script
Posted By: Endre Mon, Nov 06, 2017

I agree with JLim, I think provincial maybe Zhangzhou Swatow Ware 19th century

Subject:Re: large bowl with script
Posted By: JLim Thu, Nov 09, 2017



Dear Endre

To clarify, are you saying that Swatow ware was still being made in the 19th century? I was under the impression that Swatow ware proper was purely Ming (c. 1600).

Dear RogerD

Are you saying this object was made by expatriate Chinese living in Borneo? Could it not have been imported to Borneo from the Swatow kilns?

Kind regards
J.Lim

Subject:Re: large bowl with script
Posted By: Endre Fri, Nov 10, 2017

JLim, thanks for bringing that up, Zhangzhou Swatow Ware late 19th century is what I have seen described on eBay listings from a seller in Maryland USA for very similar plates with the three characteristics I notice...crackle, minyao design, and what looks like a fu mark. I’m not expert of course and i see it does look strikingly like the Borneo examples aside from the crackle, but yes we can all agree it’s not Ming and I guess I will clarify that I did not suggest that. I searched quickly on pater gratia which are all Ming swatow and apparently different, also I searched eBay for similar. I only made suggestion for consideration. Borneo, China, Vietnam, or wherever- it is nice looking in my opinion. I like this style and I would buy it if I saw it for a price I could afford, and this conversation has led me to new things for future researching- thank you David, JLim, and RogerD

Subject:Re: large bowl with script
Posted By: RogerD Fri, Nov 10, 2017

J Lim:
The Chinese pottery craft has flourished in Kuching (Sarawak), Malaysia, (Western Borneo), since the 1800s but trading in Chinese pottery started in the 12th century. It is common to find Ming Dynasty pottery still in use in Sarawak. Check the link below for an interesting insight into the history of the pottery of Sarawak

URL Title :http://sarawakpotterycentre.blogspot.com/p/history.html


Subject:Re: large bowl with script
Posted By: RogerD Mon, Nov 06, 2017

I think your bowl is from the Chinese kilns in Borneo. I have a similar piece but it is in storage so I can't photograph it, but you can see one for sale at Borneo Artifacts. Search for plate.
Regards,
Roger

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Subject:Re: large bowl with script
Posted By: RogerD Mon, Nov 06, 2017

Here are pics of the bowl for sale at Borneo Artifacts.





Subject:Re: large bowl with script
Posted By: david Tue, Nov 07, 2017

Thank you very much JLim, Roger and Endre! David.

Subject:Re: large bowl with script
Posted By: david Sun, Nov 12, 2017

Hello all, I was following all of the "internal" discussions on my Swatow plate/ bowl. So what would be the final consensus on this plate? Thank you! David.

Subject:Re: large bowl with script
Posted By: JLim Mon, Nov 13, 2017



Dear David

I think the result is that your dish is 19th century minyao, possibly made outside China by expatriate Chinese from Swatow; I think more likely made inside China. It is not Swatow ware proper, but is a form of minyao (commoners' porcelain).

Kind regards
J.Lim

Subject:Re: large bowl with script
Posted By: Endre Mon, Nov 13, 2017

Sorry David, I was also hoping to get a final answer about your piece as well. I am not an expert of course, but I still believe it is late 19th century or maybe early 20th century to give an amateur answer to your question. I only compare it to what I can see in images, I have not held something like this before. The footrim looks lacking of kiln grit which is typical of Ming swatow. I think the word swatow is used sometimes to describe the style, kitchen Qing is probably the more accurate and non confusing term. I think it’s wonderful that items and techniques are still used from centuries past and the skills have traveled to many places. Thank you again David for sharing this bowl

Subject:Re: large bowl with script
Posted By: david Tue, Nov 14, 2017

Thank you very much J Lim and Endre for all the info you have shared on this piece! David.


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