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Subject:Lime Green Yuhuchunping - Alleged Daoguang
Posted By: JLim Fri, Nov 03, 2017 IP: 101.164.192.17



Dear all

I am hoping that knowledgeable people on this website will be able to comment on the below pictured extremely unusual vase which recently sold on eBay for over 1,000 US dollars.

I am thoroughly intrigued by this object. Is this the colour known as "apple green", which is copper based? Surely apple green is typically a lot darker and richer than this glaze.

Or is this the obscure "lime green" glaze mentioned by Nigel Wood, p246, which he says was invented near the end of the 19th century and was one of the last major developments of Chinese glazes.

If it is a late 19th century object, then surely the Daoguang mark on the bottom demonstrated that this vase must be modern. I believe apocryphal Daoguang marks were not used at all until after the Empire. Can anyone confirm?

On the other hand this may be apple-green glaze; which means that this could be mark and period Daoguang. Anyone care to hazard a guess?

Anyway, this is an intriguing object that looks pretty good to me as an antique, but raises some interesting questions.

I will be posting more pictures of this object later.

Kind regards
J.Lim







Subject:Re: Lime Green Yuhuchunping - Alleged Daoguang
Posted By: JLim Sat, Nov 04, 2017

Pictures







Subject:Re: Lime Green Yuhuchunping - Alleged Daoguang
Posted By: Bill H Sat, Nov 04, 2017

I've pasted a Christies link below to a Daoguang period green brush pot, and also have uploaded photos of my own green gu vase with what I think is a period mark of Guangxu. My confidence in that vase is based in part on a Tongzhi mark & period lime green dish with similar orange peel in the glaze that's shown as No. 99 in the Weishaupt Collection catalog, 'From the Dragon's Treasure'.

Just an observational opinion regarding your vase, bearing on the whiteness of the base glaze and the amazing perfection of the six-character blue mark, the latter feature contrasting significantly with almost all of the marks on the otherwise fine examples of Daoguang ware shown in the aforementioned Weishaupt catalog. I also have some photos of a large late 20th century Kangxi-marked green bottle vase I once owned, which was bought at a local museum's close-out sale of decorative reproductions of Chinese classic vases. The color and base glaze remind me of your yuhuchunping. I'll try to upload a couple of pictures of it when this thread appears in the forum.

Best regards,

Bill H.








URL Title :Daoguang Green Vase


Subject:Re: Lime Green Yuhuchunping - Alleged Daoguang
Posted By: JLim Sun, Nov 05, 2017



Dear Bill

Thanks a lot, I was really scratching my head looking through my books etc looking for a comparable example. I'm afraid the Christie's link doesn't seem to work?

Nigel Wood says that the lime-green glaze is based on antimony, and is therefore completely unique in Chinese porcelain. He also says it was not invented until the late 19th century. However, if Christie's has indeed sold a Daoguang vase with a lime-green glaze, I shall just have to assume that Wood is wrong.

Kind regards
J.Lim

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Subject:Re: Lime Green Yuhuchunping - Alleged Daoguang
Posted By: Bill H Sun, Nov 05, 2017

Along with the promised pictures of that Kangxi-marked modern green vase (15.38 inches or 38.7 cm high), I see the Christies shortened shortcut I left doesn't work here like it does at home. Here's the longer version that may get you in but needs to be pasted in your browser.

http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?from=searchresults&intObjectID=3999067&sid=46611902-6847-4cdc-b66e-19d5f9b76798

Best regards,

Bill







Subject:Re: Lime Green Yuhuchunping - Alleged Daoguang
Posted By: JLim Mon, Nov 06, 2017




Dear Bill

Are you sure that Christie's pot is Daoguang? Davison says that the Li Yu Cheng mark is typically Tongzhi to Guangxu (Mark 2266) which would fit in with Wood's statement that the antimony green glaze was a late 19th century invention.

I am fascinated by the difference in colour between the two genuine objects and the eBay one. The genuine antimony green from the Empire seems to have had almost an acidic appearance. The eBay version seems to have softened that down to what I might call a "chewing gum" appearance.

All the more reason to call the eBay vase a (expensive) fake - and to confirm the idea that Daoguang antimony greens simply did not exist.

Kind regards
J.Lim

Subject:Re: Lime Green Yuhuchunping - Alleged Daoguang
Posted By: Bill H Tue, Nov 07, 2017

According to some of my old notes, Li Yucheng (李裕成) was reported by the former website www.teaw.com to be a contemporary of Wang Bingrong during the Tongzhi-Guangxu era. Wang Bingrong used to get persistent credit from some corners of the antique and auction market for allegedly having been carving porcelain as early as the Daoguang period. So if that's true, and if Li is a true contemporary of Wang, maybe they both started while the Daoguang Emperor was still on the throne. Of course, gotheborg.com gives inclusive dates of 1840-1860 for Wang, but maybe he was a prodigy.

Cheers,

Bill H.

Subject:Re: Lime Green Yuhuchunping - Alleged Daoguang
Posted By: Corey Mon, Nov 06, 2017

A FINE AND RARE PAIR OF LIME-GREEN CUPS MARKS AND PERIOD OF YONGZHENG:

http://www.sothebys.com/cn/auctions/ecatalogue/2011/the-meiyintang-collection-an-important-selection-of-imperial-chinese-porcelains-hk0371/lot.30.html

@JLim: Wouldn't it be appropriate to post a link to the actual sale at eBay, not least for the convenience?



Subject:Re: Lime Green Yuhuchunping - Alleged Daoguang
Posted By: JLim Tue, Nov 07, 2017



Dear Corey

That link is very interesting. So lime green did exist back then. It is particularly interesting because the Yongzheng bowls look like they have a shade of green more similar to the eBay vase.

I have just read in Allen's latest book about antimony being used for a rather sickly analogue to Imperial Yellow, but then being rapidly abandoned because the antimony made the potters sick!

I normally do not comment on active sales of any sort, but only post-mortems, as it were. So there is no link.

Kind regards
JLim

Subject:Re: Lime Green Yuhuchunping - Alleged Daoguang
Posted By: Corey Wed, Nov 08, 2017

Link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FINE-ANTIQUE-CHINESE-GREEN-GLAZED-PEAR-SHAPE-PORCELAIN-VASE-DAOGUANG-MARK-13-034-H-/362139388613?hash=item5451308ac5%3Ag%3A0L4AAOSwTO9Z7odV&nma=true&si=E0T7C7l31ArSkK8eORVT%252BZFoIsM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Subject:Re: Lime Green Yuhuchunping - Alleged Daoguang
Posted By: JLim Fri, Nov 10, 2017



Thanks Corey.


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