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Subject:2 old? matching chinese vases with blue rings to the base.
Posted By: richard Sat, Oct 28, 2017 IP: 2a00:23c0:a701:6801:

Hi there,

I found these two vases tucked away in a corner in a Continental Charity type shop. The vases are 29 cm high and look like a matching pair? Colours are very vibrant and the darkish warm yellow on both these vases caught my eye as it really stood out.
Unfortunately they do have some damage to the rim and base, which will no doubt affect their value if any!
I assume they are fairly modern, but any info or suggestions on these 2 vases would be appreciated. Thank you in advance. R







Subject:Re: 2 old? matching chinese vases with blue rings to the base.
Posted By: Miano Sun, Oct 29, 2017

Hello Richard,

This is a Famille verte enamel with a Kangxi Emperor (4 May 1654 – 20 December 1722) double circle mark. The base does reveal the bisque which would guide/serve a good indicator of it's age.

See More:http://www.chinese-porcelain-art.com/articles/anthony-gray-chinese-kangxi-famille-verte/

Thanks,

Miano

Subject:Re: 2 old? matching chinese vases with blue rings to the base.
Posted By: Richard Mon, Oct 30, 2017

Thank you ever so much for that bit of advice! Much appareciated. Should this be a genuine piece and turn out they had some value, it would mean that after many years, many mistakes and buying a room full of rubbish and fakes that persistence, reading, listening and learning from sites like this would have finally paid off.............Here's hoping!

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Subject:Re: 2 old? matching chinese vases with blue rings to the base.
Posted By: JLim Tue, Oct 31, 2017



Dear Richard

For God's sake wait a moment :-) I am not so sure....this does not look like Kangxi famille verte to me. Please wait for more commenters before buying it.

Miano correctly says that these objects are in the *style* of Kangxi Famille Verte and that the exposed biscuit at the foot will be useful in determining their actual age. Miano did *not* specifically say that this was confirmed.

To me, the paintwork on these vases is rather blundering and lumpy for Kangxi. Look for example at the way the veins on the leaves have been sort of dashed on. The feet of the vases look quite coarse as well, and possibly have had dirt artificially applied.

However, there is convincing looking iridescence on some of the green enamels. Can you see the rainbow effect? Even in Hobson's time (1917) iridescence was being faked, and I have myself seen recent fakes with iridescence, but this example looks OK to me.

Iridescence of this sort develops over time, and is generally a sign of age. I would classify these vases as potentially Kangxi Revival pieces of the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

It is true that dirt artificially added to a base is often a sign of a modern fake; but it would not be the first time that I have seen modern dirt applied to a genuinely antique object. Some traders truly are fools, and do not realise that their objects are actually old!

Now, I am no expert on Kangxi famille verte, and definitely these objects could be brand new - or maybe genuinely Kangxi?? - I would welcome input from anyone else who is watching.

Kind regards
J.Lim

Subject:Re: 2 old? matching chinese vases with blue rings to the base.
Posted By: JLim Tue, Oct 31, 2017



Dear Richard

I forgot to mention that there are some details on these vases that look sort of like transfer printing - for example the broken lines in the bamboo stems and in the black border. I cannot be certain of that from these photos, however. If the vases are partially transfer printed (eg the black parts transfer printed and the remainder painted in) this would immediately be a bad sign, since transfer printing did not exist in antique Chinese porcelain.

My other point is that, the more I look at the feet of these vases, the less I like them. The footrim is slathered in brown, and the glaze circle in the middle is quite shiny.

I am starting to lean towards mid 20th century perhaps?

Kind regards
J.Lim

Subject:Re: 2 old? matching chinese vases with blue rings to the base.
Posted By: Richard Tue, Oct 31, 2017

Thank you for both your replies. Although I am a novice on Chinese porcelain, I am 99.9% sure that both these vases are hand painted. Although they look similar and are no doubt meant to be a pair, there is enough difference between them to realise they are both hand painted and not transfer printed? If they were transfer printed, I assume both vases would/should bot look more or less identical? They don't.
I will try and take some better close up photo's and post these on a new thread tomorrow for any one that is interested.

Subject:Re: 2 old? matching chinese vases with blue rings to the base.
Posted By: Anthony J Allen Wed, Nov 01, 2017

Hi Richard,
If you do as Anthony Gray suggests and compare your vases with those in the Groninger Museum (Groninger Museum, Jorg, Christiaan J.A., Famille Verte: Chinese Porcelain in Green Enamels (2011)), you will immediately see the differences.

Note also the artificially dirtied unglazed foot rims on your pair.

I suggest they are late 20th century, most likely
4th quarter, in the famille verte palette.
The Kangxi reign is generally accepted to have been from 1662 to 1722.

Subject:Re: 2 old? matching chinese vases with blue rings to the base.
Posted By: richard Thu, Nov 02, 2017

Thank you for all your replies, it is much appreciated. It is all about learning and sharing knowledge with us novices.
Funny enough I did find and purchase these two vases in The Netherlands, so possibly at some point copied from the original vases in the Groninger Museum. I suppose worth keeping these as a reference what not to buy...;¬)
Anyway thanks again for all your replies, the search for the real Kangxi or Ming item continues.......;¬)


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