Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries


Visitors' Forum

Asian Art  Forums - Reply Message
Asian Art Forums

Message Listing by Date:
Message Index | Back | Post a New Message | Search | Private Mail | FAQ
Subject:help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Willie Howard Tue, Sep 11, 2012 IP: 24.151.129.253

Hi All,
I am hoping that someone might be able to translate either one or both of these signatures and seals.
Thanks,
Willie





Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Guy Wed, Sep 12, 2012

The second signature reads 'painted by hôgen Shûhô at the age of 78 years' and refers to Mori Shûhô (1738-1823) a well known Japanese painter from Osaka. The work dates from 1815 (years counted from day of bitrh in the Japanese way).

Some relevant biographical data can be found in the link below (British Museum):

URL Title :Mori Sûhô


Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Guy Thu, Sep 13, 2012

Hope this link works.

Guy

URL Title :Mori Shûhô


Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Thesmall1 Sun, Oct 08, 2017

Can anybody identify this mark by chance?

Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Thesmall1 Sun, Oct 08, 2017

Here is the pictures that I forgot to post on my last post.

Post a Reply
Name:
Email:
Group: China & Japan
Subject:
Message:
Link URL:
Enter here the complete URL of any site, page or image you would like to show other visitors.
URL Title:
Enter here the title of the link you've given above. This will appear to the visitor. Eg., if you are linking another picture, enter "Another picture". The link will not appear without a title.
Image URL:
Enter here the URL of an image if it is already uploaded on the web. The image will appear with your posting. Do not post pictures which are not yours without permission from the copyright holder. It is the responsibility of each poster to make sure they have permission to use any photos they post.
Image: You may upload up to three images. If you would like to upload more images to this message please do so by replying to this same message.

Please make sure the file type is JPEG or GIF and the filename does not contain spaces.





Use the Browse button to find an image (jpg or gif) on a local drive on your computer to upload for including with your message. Do not upload images with file names containing spaces. Please do not upload files larger than 500 KB in size. Do not post pictures which are not yours without permission from the copyright holder. It is the responsibility of each poster to make sure they have permission to use any photos they post. Check the "email notification" box below if you would like to be notified of any responses to your message.
Check here for email notification.
Security Code: Security Image: please enter the text appears in this image.

Please type in the code you see in the image directly above this input box.

Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Thesmall1 Mon, Oct 09, 2017

Last try, my pictures wont upload for some reason.

Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Guy Wed, Sep 12, 2012

I tend to read the first two characters of the first signature as 'Tanzan' (探山) but I'm not sure about the third character. The fourth kanji is 'hitsu' (筆) or 'painted by'.

Possibly, this signature refers to Tsuruzawa Tanzan (1655-1729) or a later copy of a painting by this Japanese artist.

Cfr with the signature ('hôgen Tanzan hitsu') of a Tanzan scroll in the collection of the MFA Boston (cfr link below) and especially the rendering of the characters 'tan' and 'hitsu' in both works.

Guy.

URL Title :Tanzan - MFA Boston


Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: rat Thu, Sep 13, 2012

Guy, I think the third character is supposed to be "upright"/"correct", in Japanese "sei" or "tada(shi)". So a "real/true painting" by Tanzan?

Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Guy Fri, Sep 14, 2012

rat,

I think you are right. The postfix 'shôhitsu' (正筆) - 'real/true painting' was used by artists on Japanese paintings and surprisingly even on woodblock prints in the 18th century. In this case, it could be an indication that this is an original and not a later copy (not a fake, but a faithful copy painted by a pupil).

So, the complete signature in cursive should read 'Tanzan shôhitsu'.

The seals of the two paintings remain unread by me, but they are an important element for eventual further authentication by someone who has the knowledge.

Guy.

Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Willie Mon, Sep 24, 2012

Guy,
I've been looking at a number of paintings and I wonder if the second signature could be read "Kano Tan'yu". It does seem to match a number that I've found in the Boston MFA, Harvard Museum, Metropolitan (see link), etc. The seal also matches somewhat, but is messy and maybe slightly off, possibly suggesting wear or a copy/fake? Hope you get this.

Regards,

Willie


URL Title :Tano Kan\'yu- Met. Museum of Art, New York


Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Guy Tue, Sep 25, 2012

Spot on Willie! Bravo! It is Kanô Tan'yû and the seal does match for sure with the one on an ink painting in the British Museum (cfr image). I see no real differencies. The BM description states 'Claimed to be by Kano Tan'yu' (ex Arthur Morrison collection).

The full signature reads 'Tan'yûsai hitsu'; the seal reads 'hôgen Tan'yû'.

Great fun isn't it?
Guy.
Link URL:



Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Willie Thu, Sep 27, 2012

Guy,

Thanks for the confirmation. Yes it is fun but I really do need to learn the language. I posted an image of the painting. Thought you might be interested in seeing more than just the signature.

Best Regards,
Willie



Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Willie Thu, Sep 13, 2012

Dear Guy,

Once again I owe you. Maybe someday I'll learn enough to be able to return at least a little. Until then, much thanks.

Best Regards,

Willie

Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Guy Fri, Sep 14, 2012

Couldn't resist to have another look at the seal of Shûhô and I believe it must be read as 'hôgen Takanobu' (法眼貴信) - 'hôgen' being the honorary title and 'Takanobu' the artist's surname.

The characters in the right hand part of Tanzan's seal read also 'hôgen' - the left part remains unread by me.

Guy.

Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Kirkwood Paterson Mon, Oct 08, 2012

really it looks an uber cool zen masterpiece.
why not post the painting itself? the art is not all about the signature!!
one look at the picture itself & it will be blatantly obvious whether a commercial or zen work.

Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Willie Tue, Oct 09, 2012

Hi,
I am assuming you are refering the the Kano Tan'yu signed painting. The image was posted above, Sept. 27 (Bird on wilting plant/flower). I wouldn't necessarily know a masterpiece but this doesn't appear commercial to me. I am, however, pretty new to all of this so I really appreciate hearing what others think. Thanks for the interest.

Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Willie Tue, Oct 09, 2012

Hi, just replied to your post assuming your interest was in the Kano Tan'yu painting. Just in case I was mistaken here is an image of the Mori Shuho piece.



Subject:Re: help with painting signature, seal
Posted By: Marie Nemrova-Frostick Fri, Feb 08, 2019

Please could someone identify this print for me. My sister found it in the loft when she moved into her new home.

Many thanks

Kindest regards
Marie








Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries |