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Subject:Questions about really beat-up cinnabar vase...how old?
Posted By: JayC Wed, Jul 12, 2017 IP: 184.96.206.27
Hello!

This vase came from a house where the people smoked like chimneys. Because it was already beat-up I decided to clean it with a little toothpaste and a toothbrush and simply managed to spread the goop around...as you can see. Before I do anything else to it I would really like to get an assessment of age. The armature around the foot seems to be of some type of openwork metal (not brass)and the black enamel interior is crazing like crazy. Any help would be much appreciated (I really want to know if it's worth putting in any more effort.). There are no marks and the vase stands a little less than 9" tall. It is really a shame that someone put so much work into this just to have it treated so poorly but before I do anything I need to know if it's worth the trouble. Thank you!







Subject:Re: Questions about really beat-up cinnabar vase...how old?
Posted By: JayC Thu, Jul 13, 2017
Here are some more pictures.







Subject:Re: Questions about really beat-up cinnabar vase...how old?
Posted By: JayC Sat, Jul 15, 2017
Thanks everyone! Particularly Badiste and Mr. Prussing for your suggestions...frankly I think I will have to set and ponder this for a while before I decide what to do. The work that somebody(ies) put in on this piece deserves recognition, I'm just not sure I'm the person to get it repaired...we'll see. Again, thank you!

Here are a few more pics for the road!!







Subject:Re: Questions about really beat-up cinnabar vase...how old?
Posted By: rat Thu, Jul 13, 2017
maybe a couple of decades old but this is decorative art for the mass market. actual carved lacquer pieces are carved after having been built up in layer after layer of lacquer, rather like if you carved into 100 layers of paint. The flaking on the rim and the missing piece from the foot suggests that so such practice happened for this piece.

Here is a close up of carved lacquer showing some of the layers: https://image0-rubylane.s3.amazonaws.com/0/ror/2001/12_01_cvr/images/img05.jpg

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Subject:Be careful - it could be Qing
Posted By: beadiste Thu, Jul 13, 2017
Your vase has a black lacquer lining, albeit much abused and cracked. Here's a video showing a similar larger piece:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUK1epEH-ps

You might want to at least Google around for museum conservators' lacquer cleaning techniques.

Perhaps someone on the forum can recommend a professional conservator.

Subject:Re: Be careful - it could be Qing
Posted By: JayC Fri, Jul 14, 2017
High Rat, and thank you, I know about lacquer ...have you ever seen lacquer soften in hot water? I have and it isn't pretty. In any event I'm looking more at value of conservation versus value of piece not whether or not it's real and/or contemporary. Conservation can get pretty expensive. Anyone with experience with this subject? Thanks!

Subject:Re: Be careful - it could be Qing
Posted By: rat Fri, Jul 14, 2017
You may be referring to beadiste, who is likely better informed than I am about lacquer, I don't have experience conserving lacquer, that's for sure

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