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Subject:Is this Hongxian or Jurentang
Posted By: Smile4Me Sat, Jul 25, 2015 IP: 71.94.235.57

Trying to find information of this vase.

I think it's dated between 1915-1916.

Any info would be wonderful.

Thank you





Subject:Re: Is this Hongxian or Jurentang
Posted By: LEE Sun, Jul 26, 2015

the your dating of hongxian- early republic is correct, as long as the provenance of this vase can be dated at least 10 years before sophisticated replicas existed. The mandarin duck lotus pond and the crane and mulberry tree is typical motif of this pea early republic period.

Subject:Re: Is this Hongxian or Jurentang
Posted By: Bill H Sun, Jul 26, 2015

Here's a Jurentang-marked jardinière about 6.5 inches high and 7 inches across the top that a few of my gurus and I believe probably was made circa the Hongxian era, or about 1915-1916. Rather than stand on my head, I'll let you compare it with your vase and decide for yourself, though my visceral reaction is that your vase with "100 birds adoring the phoenix" motif looks from what I can see of it that it might be a late 20th century product. Why do you think it is earlier? Is it marked? What does the bottom look like?

Best regards,

Bill H.







Subject:Re: Is this Hongxian or Jurentang
Posted By: Smile4Me Sun, Jul 26, 2015

Here's the mark



Subject:Re: Is this Hongxian or Jurentang
Posted By: Bill H Sun, Jul 26, 2015

Here are images of another vase, about 16 inches tall, with mark of Jurentang and almost certainly dating to the Hongxian period. A pair of similarly decorated vases of about the same size but with garlic-heads and handles on the necks were in the collection of the late German collector Georg Weishaupt and appear in his 2002 catalog, 'The Great Fortune'. They were assigned to the first half of the 20th century, their bases originally having had marks which had been ground off.

The point here is to provide an example of the delicate nature and great detail lavished on everything by the painter. The is a primary characteristic of porcelains of this era.

Best regards,

Bill H.







Subject:Re: Is this Hongxian or Jurentang
Posted By: Smile4Me Thu, Jul 30, 2015

Thank you so much.

This has helped me greatly. I'm studying to be an antique dealer, through college. I had an idea on the piece, of what it might be.

I'm just still a bit confused on Hongxian vs Jurentang, and that intrest me.

Subject:Re: Is this Hongxian or Jurentang
Posted By: rat Fri, Jul 31, 2015

Do you read Chinese? There's a fair amount on Jurentang. If I remember right, the consensus otherwise seems to be that genuine Hongxian pieces are extremely rare (therefore good fakers are happy to try their luck making them).

Subject:Re: Is this Hongxian or Jurentang
Posted By: rat Fri, Jul 31, 2015

Sorry, to clarify, by "Hongxian" I mean porcelain made for "imperial" use during the Hongxian reign of Yuan Shikai, as opposed to Jurentang-marked and other porcelains that were also manufactured during that time.

Subject:Re: Is this Hongxian or Jurentang
Posted By: LEE Sat, Aug 01, 2015

The Jurentang mark is widely copied by private kilns in the 1900. This early 20th century common export dragon vase is one of those. The mark is also widely copied all through the later part of the 20th century and some of the best ones are so good even experts have a hard time trying to tell the real from the fake. The only difference is the accuracy of the painting to the original and the subtle difference in color of the glaze. The potting technique and the surface glaze, wear and stain are replicated very well and forget about looking at the foot rim that is also replicated in modern fakes very well.






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