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4 inches across,old or new?I have no idea,can't get a better image of the marks,Keith.

Hi Keith,
The mark is Chinese, 'Cheng Yishun Zao' (Made by Cheng Yishun), and the bowls look to be early 20th century wares for export and domestic markets.
Regards,
Bill H.

This is a Chinese tea cup in iron red colour. One have the character "shou" on it and the other show the Buddha's finger, both also a symbol of longevity. Quality wise, generally for the masses from late 19th century to early 20th century.

Thanks for both replies,thought it was Japanese because of the mark on the bottom left which I believed to be 'zo',many thanks,Keith.

As mentioned by others these are early 20thC Chinese bowls, the first is decorated with the "Shou", (long life) character & the second has a "Sanduo" or "3 abundances" motif represented by a peach, a pomogranite & a finger citron, sometimes called Buddhas hand. These three fruit represent a wish for a long, fruitful, (as in many sons) & virtuous life.

Thanks again for the extra information,Keith.

Hello,

I would like to add three observations:
1. The pieces look old.
2. The "zao" character was relatively seldom used on porcelain marks in China in the last two or three hundred years, but it is common on Japanese porcelain.
2. Neither in any Chinese book nor among the thousands of images I viewed in the Chinese internet have I ever seen this type of porcelain, but such bowls are offered now and then among the auctions on Yahoo Japan.
I am not sure what this means...please draw your own conclusions... :-)

These are certainly Chinese without a shadow of a doubt & were very common during the late Qing/early republic period. I used to have a couple of similar pieces & may be able to find photo`s, if I can I`ll post them but again most assuredly Chinese bowls.

Most grateful for all the posts,Keith

Peter, your observations may have overlooked a few points that I take to be valid.

1. A preponderance of Chinese porcelain made for export during the past two or three hundred years was unmarked.

2. Most of the relatively small amount of marked Chinese porcelain wares exported to the West during the past century and a half, when apocryphal reign marks began proliferating in China, bore these apocryphal reign marks, typically ending in 'zhi'.

3. Some popular kiln or 'minyao' utilitarian wares sold domestically in China and exported to Southeast Asia during the past 150 years also bore apocryphal reign marks ending in zhi; however, most of these utilitarian wares that bore marks would appear to have been stamped with factory markings ending in 'zao'. Please bear in mind that at any given time during the last century of Qing rule, there appear to have been upwards of two hundred private kilns operating at Jingdezhen (extrapolating from figures recorded during the Qianlong reign).

I'm basing my opinion in part on books such as 'Straits Chinese Porcelain, A Collector's Guide' by Ho Wing Meng in addition to personal porcelain-handling experience. Neither does a thumb-through of the late 19th century book 'Japanese Marks and Seals' by James Lord Bowes seem to back up your supposition regarding Japanese use of 'zao; versus 'zhi'.

The Japanese traditionally have adorned their wares with marks of a handful of Ming and Qing reigns, which typically end in 'zhi', but I've never seen them duplicate Chinese factory markings on minyao-style porcelain like these dishes of Keith's. With so much of the latter wares floating around, it wouldn't make sense for the Japanese or anyone else to copy them at present market values.

In any event, the Cheng Yishun mark is most certainly on Chinese porcelain, in my opinion.

I'm attaching a photo of some iron red wares that I believe are Chinese Republic-era or later (the cups seem to be transfer-decorated). They are in the 'san duo' (Three Abundance} pattern and have zhuanshu stamps on the bottoms. The plate and ewer, respectively, have Tongzhi and Guangxu four-character marks ending in 'zhi', while the cups have factury marks, unreadable by me except for the final character, which I believe is 'zao'.

I welcome further comment as to whether the 'san duo' pattern ranks a standard motif in Japanese ceramics. It is my impression that it doesn't.

Best regards,

Bill H.

I'm not familiar with Chinese with only a limited knowledge of Japanese marks,so I'm not sure if you're saying they are old/Chinese or Japanese,so have included a picture of the seal mark on the other cup,forgive me if it's not the right way up as you can see it's none to clear,Keith.

They are Chinese.

Keith, what I was saying is that the only bowl for which you you showed a mark was the one in the 'San Duo' (Three Abundance) pattern with a Cheng Yishun factory mark. It is Chinese in my opinion, possibly made by a relative of or successor to Cheng Yitai, a late 19th-early 20th century Chinese maker of export wares for the Straits Chinese Market. I have not to date heard of such Chinese factory marks being faked on Japanese porcelain. The other cup in your original photo looks Chinese too, but you don't show the mark for it. The latest image is of the base of the same or another cup with 'San Duo' decoration and a stamp of the Tongzhi (1861-74) reign mark, which likely is apocryphal, just as I suspect the stamps are on the items in my photo. If my previous comments weren't clear to you, they were designed in the main as an effort to dissuade Peter of some of his assumptions. Best regards, Bill

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