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Not sure about this one...

With out flash it appears rather red/purple.
Glaze is cracked. except on the neck of the opening and some run off, there is no glaze on the inside.

That black spot is pretty big for impurity...

Sorry Hallo, but this does not look correct interms of glaze, esp the cafe au lait glaze is too thin and the foot rim has not been heatly trimed like in the true imperial Qianlong piece. and shape of dragon is too stiff and not neatly made. Cheers, Larry

This is a good flambe color that could almost pass for Qianlong period (1736 to 1795), but not in my opinion as early as its Yongzheng (1723 to 1735) reign mark.
Applied salamanders appear in quantity on Chinese vases from the Tongzhi reign period (1861 to 1875), but in my opinion this is slightly later; Guangxu period (1875 to 1908), probably after 1890.
Regards
Tony

It's not a salamander. Chinese Salamander are huge >1 foot long (i.e. wawa fish) and have the connotation of being bad omen. It cry like a baby...

This is actually a water dragon(Panchi) or really a lizard.

Panchi being a familiar figure in chinese myth is very common on Porcelain and everything else including Jade. There are many examples of Kangxi and Qianlong period Zun vase decorated with this. Really nothing special. I don't think it was any more popular in Tongzhi period than any other time period. The Dragon is a little stiff, not as pretty as museum pieces.

What I was curious was the Glaze being a little too Red. Could this be an early Jun Hong or AKA Jun Red piece?

Guangxu period flambe have lost all livelyness in the blue colour and glaze quality is quite poor. Glaze firing control is also quite poor and thus glaze is much thicker on the bottom.
So I don't think this is Guangxu.

I've read that some authentic Kangxi flambe piece doesn't even have cafe au lait glaze on the bottom and the glaze is applied without much consideration on quality. ie. not a definitive factor. Some piece have cafe au lait glaze on the mouth bot others remain white.

Now i'm confused

In your first post you say you are not sure and in your second post you seem to know all the answers?

The older texts referred to these lizard-like creatures as salamanders. Maybe gecko would have been a closer match?

However, just because one species of Chinese salamander is 12 inches long, does not mean they all are. Nor did the potters pot them as life size, as evidenced by the range of various sized dragons in high relief on many vases.

I was referring to the use of these creatures (and dragons) in relief on baluster vases in particular, which became very popular in the Tongzhi period and later.

If you don't think it is Guangxu because of your generalisation about Guangxu glazes, I don't think you can have seen many examples. There was an enormous range in glaze colours and quality, not just in the Guangxu reign but continuing into the early Republic period.

Why don't you tell us what period you think it is?

Hallow,

Actually, I think Tony was being rather liberal with his dating.

I would have placed it about 1910-30, my reason has largely to do with your statement in pointing out a crucial detail: " there is no glaze on the inside."

Yet it is determine by photo that the inside lip is glazed partly, my guess is that the glaze extends about 1/4 into the inside neck, whereas the rest is just exposed biscuit. If that is indeed the case, then your horse-hoof water pot falls well within the suggested period of manufacture (1910-1930).

One way to determine this observation as being correct,... is to run your finger on the inside, if the biscuit feels dry to the touch and seems to cause your finger to drag, then by all means this is a later production as was suggested by Tony and myself.

Quote: "I've read that some authentic Kangxi flambe piece doesn't even have cafe au lait glaze on the bottom and the glaze is applied without much consideration on quality. ie. not a definitive factor. Some piece have cafe au lait glaze on the mouth bot others remain white."

Your confusion stems from wanting to believe that your water pot is early 18th century. The four character Yongzheng mark is a dead give away in this respect, that the treatment and finish to the porcelains of the Yongzheng reign surpassed the quality of the Kangxi period porcelains in terms of paste quality and extreme attention to detail.

If this water pot would have come to the emperors attention, with this rather sloppy iron wash treatment to the base bottom washing over onto his nienhao, the punishment would be quite severe up to and including death.

The base should be done in clear glaze, with either an under-glaze blue nienhao (mark) or stamped impressed with a clear glaze covering the nienhao evenly.

The base foot should be well rounded and extremely smooth to the touch.


Regards, Edward Shumaker

>Anthony J Allen
I just wanted to clarify that it wasn't technically a Salamander. Being chinese myself i couldn't but help myself. No offense intended.

I've see many Guangxu Flambe maybe not as many as you but most have lost blue or have very distinct patches of blue or reds. Only in very small pieces are the colours actually mixing interchangably.
This is a pic of the GuangXu I have in mind from Sotheby's . Here is a Dao Guang from Sotheby's and even that has the charasteristcs I've already said.

Were discussing, no harm done why the hostility all of a sudden?


>Edward Shumaker

My mistake about no glaze on the inside.
It's just clear glaze and a lot of dust. Nothing is exposed.
What I meant by no glaze on the inside was that theere wasn't flambe on the inside.

Nienhao doesn't automatically have to be under-glaze blue nienhao does it? Here's a piece from Shanghai chongyuan auction house in 2006 that has similar carved nianhao with uneven glaze as you put it.

Hi,
Would you be interested in selling this vase?
Thanks,
Bill

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