Subject:Let him who is without sin cast the first stone
Posted By: Bill Sun, Sep 30, 2007
To the honorable Mr. Shumaker:
Quoted from a message addressed from Dr. Veleanu to Mr. Shumaker in this forum:
Dear Mr. Shumaker,
On the other way you are a supporter of an obscure publication with obvious publication of modern Hong Shan style carving represented as archaic and heavily polished carvings that in the eyes of a knowledgeable collector are having no value, other than esthetic, to place them in your glass chest to impress your house guest with your acquisitions.
I consider an insult that such written garbage is recommended as representative of jade carvings of Hong Shan Neolithic culture. This catalog, as shown in panel 8, shows a photo of a Hong style open ring dragon, heavily cleaned that appears of modern fabrication. The second photo from this book shows a shiny, smooth carving with appearance of "chicken bone" but lacking the characteristic weathering. This obvious modern reproduction, shows the perforations to be drilled thru and thru and lacking the diagnostic bi-conic appearance of all Neolithic carvings
Mr. Shumaker, you made a remark that is highly insulting me professionally. You claim that you are the business partner of a North Carolina owner (as disclosed by you) and you noticed that I "badly mis-attributed" the jade carvings I authenticated. Ethycally, I can't defend myself as I have no permission from the owner to discuss the details, but I consider a low blow that is unjustified. The owner of the collection I authenticated, had only words of praise for the work I have done and if you as a partner of that business firm, noticed that I did a mis-attribution, or many, you had all the rights to tell me at that time and not now, more than one year after the facts. Any allegations should be submitted with proof of wrong doing and eventual comparison with a recognized item shown in the literature as belonging to a different period. Prior you making this defamatory statement, I had more respect for you. As you are a supporter of the Orientation magazine that is your "Bible" for Hong Shan carvings, I give you the same labeling disclosed in the 8 panels presented by your distinguished pal, xxxxx xxxxxx, that apparently you are sharing the same orientation. I don't know what kind of antiques you are selling, but hope that your antiques have a better attribution that you are claiming the expertise. Probably, you are selling barber chairs for $50.000, duck decoys for $100.000 plus, rusty weathervanes for $500.000 plus, etc., etc....
This is the merchandise that you probably purchase at Brimfield and other flea markets for $5.75 a piece!. In the past, I did authentication for a well known Museum in USA and I had only words of praise for the work well done. It is sad for me to counter-attack, but "when you raise the sword, by sword will perish".
Information on the Orientations magazine quoted by you:
Published in Hong Kong and distributed worldwide, Orientations has been delighting collectors and connoisseurs of Asian art for over thirty-five years. Every issue is an authoritative source of information on the many and varied aspects of the arts of East Asia, the Indian Subcontinent and Southeast Asia.
There are beautifully illustrated articles on the ancient arts of painting, calligraphy, bronzes and ceramics, on the decorative arts and crafts as well as selections from the portfolios of contemporary artists.
Orientations also provides invaluable insights into the international Asian art market, analyzing activities at major auctions in London, New York, Hong Kong, Beijing and other centres to reveal the latest price and collecting trends.
Issues of Orientations include comprehensive calenders of all major Asian art exhibitions worldwide, as well as reviews of notable books on Asian art, architecture and archaeology.
Orientations is unique in its presentation and is itself a collector's item, with the quality of its content matched by the excellence of its design and production. `Perfect bound' with a strong laminated cover, it contains some 84 pages printed on luxury art paper, many of them with the superb full-colour reproductions for which Orientations is renowned.
Orientations is a magazine that you will enjoy at your leisure, and that you will keep to read and refer to, again and again.
I do not recognize that the Orientations magazine is published by any museums or let me quote what Anita said,
Pls make sure that the book you posted is published by China Cultural Relic Bureau or record of archeological discoveries, not from private collectors.
Any books published by uneducated private collectors, any unofficial finds, any shops, any private collections, any websites without any referrence, any record, any analysis from China Cultural Relics Authority...are unreliable.
Or what Larry said,
I hope you are aware that there is a lot of publications on art in China that are done by individuals that call themselves experts, are actually unrealiable and often incorrect scource of information about chinese art whether ceramics or jade, due to lack of proper research and inavailability of authentic material. Only books publish by Chinese Museums- state or provincial, The ministry of culture, the state administrative bureau of museums and archaeological data, or the chinese committee for the organisation of exhibitions of archaelogical finds can be trusted as valid scource of data regarding chinese relics. Alot of writters in lots of topics are collectors that for many reasons try to authenticate their own collection base on their own reasonings. However they could be misleading themselves and others in the process, most frequently unintentionally
Are you not going against the advice of the above forum members by quoting the Orientations magazine and used it as the basic for your recent thread, An Observation on Ancient Jades? (http://www.asianart.com/phpforum/27007)
Also, according to what Mr. GMAN said,
It is seeming more and more apparent that the only sensible way to make sense of the many differing opinions over jade artifacts is to go by the "official" museum literature, instead of the ceaseless bantering back and forth between the Ebay-ites and others who seemingly are applying wishful thinking and their personal interpretations of history and archeology as the primary justification of their own collections.
Adding fuel to the fire of speculation, they then quote and show photos from more sources which are not published by any "official" source, but rather another "un-official" source.
Are you not also guilty as charged by quoting from an unofficial source?
And yet in your recent message, your spoke with such arrogance and vindictiveness:
I will no longer tolerate this coup that has filtered their way into this forum to promote these ghastly fakes.
It is for this reason that I will fight the crooks of the jade trade. Once again, thank you for helping out Anita, and to all forum members that have helped to reinforce my convictions.
Wow, so very righteous and yet you are equally guilty of being accused of promoting phony Hongshan jades by posting pictures of modern Hongshan jades from the Orientations magazine (see above quotes of Dr. Veleanu.)
Worse yet, you made a cheap shot by attacking Dr. Veleanu in this forum and he couldnt defend himself because as he said, Ethycally, I can't defend myself as I have no permission from the owner to discuss the details, but I consider a low blow that is unjustified.
This shows your vindictiveness.
You mentioned that:
To Anita and to all forum members, I have been a victim of these so called ancient jade scams, and have lost thousands of dollars to these experts, in fact it has broken my heart to see a frail and sickly man invest his money into false ancient jades, thank God, he did not know any better, because he trusted his friend.
I feel bad for both you and your friends in getting ripped off by somebody whom you trusted. But in real life these things happened all the time. I had also been misled by my best friend, B, whom I trusted and still respected and bought lots of fake jades from dealers he trusted. (some from him when I first started) However, he did it without malice and he was also a victim. I also lost several thousand dollars in buying high-priced fake jades from a dealer (TJR) whom I trusted. However, unlike you I did do something about it and recaptured some of my money. I also did my part to warn other new collectors about these dealers. As a result, I was no longer allowed to bid on some of these dishonest dealers auctions and I am truly glad. In any fields of collecting, this is almost a common occurrence. (That is, got ripped of when one first started.) When I first started collecting coins twenty years ago, I paid higher than retail prices on many common coins from local dealers because I was greedy and naïve. I believed I could find and buy coin bargains at below-market costs. Many Chinese truly believe that when one first starts collecting anything, he must pay some types of tuition for the cost of learning. However, if one refuses to learn after he got cheated repeatedly, then it is nobody but his own fault. Just like the saying, Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me; Food me thrice,?????
If you cannot help your friend to capture his loss through legal means, may be you should have if he allowed or you could have done something to help yourself instead of venting your frustration on me. Any pyramid scheme or any pigeon drop scheme simply will not work unless the victims are a little bit naïve and greedy. You cannot always place the blame on the con man alone. In this case, I had been the victim but I had never listed any of my jade items for sales in any auctions or any web sites in order to cheat others. Unlike you, I am a collector only. On the other side, you are a dealer who is trying to sell stuff to other collectors. You do not need to continue to bad-mouth me unless you are afraid of something. You do not need to look too far away, just look at the other jade forum which is now nearly dead. The reason for their dismayed fate is because several jade dealers who continue to sell fake jades to other forum members had done their very best to drive away any respectful and learned members who know about jades and who dare to speak out. They simply could not tolerate their existence because their honest opinions would damage their business . If you do not believe me, just ask Anita.
Therefore, unless you truly have a personal agenda in this forum you should not be so narrow-minded and drive away anybody whom you dislike or disagree with because after all as the Bible says,
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.