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Subject:Request for second opinion
Posted By: Siegfried Present Fri, Oct 23, 2020 IP: 2a02:a03f:8d38:f00:3

Dear Folks, I am fairly new to Chinese and Japanese Ceramics, but due to Corona had loads of time to study and actually handle ceramics/porcelain.

Now I bought a pair of vases, for which I had an appraisal for two yuhuchunping vases, of which I thought them to be late yuan. The value turned 200-300 a pair, supposedly from 20th century.

The sole reason given, was the shape. Now here is the thing. After reading on how experts tend to be fast to judge based on the evidencies, such as how it should look like, which is exactlty what a faker tries to achieve (into over perfectionism).

Nowx what bothers me, is why on earth would an artist, even if it is someone who fakes I consider them artist, take so much time, for vases of almost 10kgs, to fake rust spots so well, the orange in the cracks, and then miss the obvious of mismatching the shape which is first that is what the eye meets? Further more, why suc h a big vases, while smaller copies also go for less? And why pairing them in a mismatched pear shape with a better pear shape? A foot note is that I did not buy trhem from someone claiming them to me yuan or early ming. I came to that idea based on all the age signs that should be checked and only then started thinking it could be quite old. Then looked at typical decorations and came to late yuan early ming.

The check boxes I marked,; based on fora like this are:
- firing faults (irregularities visible in detail pictures)
- Rust spots (see pictures)
- Color of the ink, plus darkish blackish area's
- cracks that turn orangish (see pictures)
- paint decorations (late yuan/early ming)
- contractions, most of them quite small

I also remarked the two vases have differences in;
- amount of rust spots
- cracks and color of cracks
- the surface isn"t really perfectly smooth but a bit undulating

Maybe one is fake (the bulky one) and the other isn't?

Could somebody tell me if this needs further examination or it isn't worth the time and money? Was the expert too fast by dismissing it based on shape only? Please let me know what else seems out of check so I can grow :). (PS: more pictures will follow)

Kind regards,


Subject:Re: Request for second opinion
Posted By: Siegfried Present Mon, Oct 26, 2020

More detailed pictures - see comparison link provided

URL Title :Photo comparison fake and real rust

Subject:Re: Request for second opinion
Posted By: Jonathan Fri, Oct 30, 2020

Hello, The foot ring is not correct for Yuan nor is the neck form. The foot is also not correct for any period earlier than 20th/21st century, nor is the drawing, enamel, bubble structure, etc. I can tell you precisely with a photo of the bottom. To give you an idea, These forms in blue and white run from $50 to $1.6 million. The estimate of 200-300 is likely correct as they are new and decorative value only IMHO. | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries |