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Subject:Qianglong period bowl?
Posted By: Roger L Gelpey Tue, Oct 20, 2020 IP:

Hello I have just acquired this bowl and would like to try to find out if it is of the period. I am attaching a link to a gallery of images. Any insights will be much appreciated!

Link :Quianglong Bowl

Subject:Re: Qianglong period bowl?
Posted By: plasticman Wed, Oct 21, 2020

In my humble opinion this is a modern bowl.The huge size and lack of wear in any area,along with the lack of manufacturing defects such as glaze bursts,hairline cracks or dirt specks all point to a not period piece. It appears to me that the process of decoration here represents a transferware effort. The color blobs that obliterate facial features such as noses, point to such a conclusion. I could find no example of European figures on a period porcelain that have the background pattern of this one and also utilize the "Canton Rose" as part of the decor. In conclusion,I feel this a bowl that is too good to be true.

Subject:Re: Qianglong period bowl?
Posted By: Roger L Gelpey Thu, Oct 22, 2020

Plasticman, Thank you for the input! You induced me to look much closer at the piece and foun some interesting details that make me say hmmm and others that seem to be signs of wear/age. There are details that make me ask how many hands worked on the decoration and when and also in what order. In the first attached pic there are several what look to me like rust spots near the lower dog's head. There also seems to be a glaze contraction just to the left of the grass near the upper dog. Those seem to be signs of age but there are black brush strokes on top of the gilded area at the lower left which have me scratching my head. I have noticed several instances of the colorist painting "outside the lines". The second pic I have attached shows this in the floral cartouche to the left. There are a couple of pinprick contractions at the edge of the border. We believed from the start that the backround was probably a European later addition as are (likely) the bird cartouches. I have added a few more detailed pics to the gallery. Any insights on these would be greatly appreciated!

Subject:Re: Qianglong period bowl?
Posted By: plasticman Sat, Oct 24, 2020

I must continue this discussion on another tack, it is that the mark ( which is poorly scripted ) is supposed to be of the reign of Qianlong. No authentic export porcelain of that period was allowed to show those marks due to an imperial decree forbidding such use, as the porcelain exported was not of the quality that was desirable enough to be associated with the emperor in any way.

Subject:Re: Qianglong period bowl?
Posted By: Roger L Gelpey Sat, Oct 24, 2020

The mark is what had me post in the first place. I thought it was poorly done compared to other examples I have seen. It was probably added by one of the many hand that seem to have worked on the decoration at varied times. Thanks very much! I am attaching a link to my image gallery and I have added some detail shots of flaws. If you have a chance I'd appreciate your thought on whether these constitute age signs.
Thank you!!

Subject:Re: Qianglong period bowl?
Posted By: Bill H Sat, Oct 24, 2020

Pardon me butting-in midway, but the added image showing the two dogs is telling regarding the bowl's transfer decoration. The dogs appear to be from an identical transfer from their postures and details of the feet. Also, there's a flower under one and behind the other that's been snipped in half. Much of the fine spotting seen is evidence of spatters where the transfers have not been protected by enough clear glaze to prevent them from frying where exposed directly to kiln atmospheres. I have to say that the pattern was set up and colored much better than the average.

The Chinese didn't adopt technology for transfer printing of porcelain on a continuing basis until the early 20th century, but some of the fine points of this piece remind me of the better transfer-printed 'Geisha Ware' produced by the Japanese. They may have trained some kiln artisans in the skill during their occupation of the China Mainland or in their colony on Taiwan, where they had taken over at the end of the 19th century. Whatever the case, this bowl is somewhat exceptional.

Best regards,

Bill H.

Subject:Re: Qianglong period bowl?
Posted By: Roger L Gelpey Sun, Oct 25, 2020

Bill H, Thank you for bringing my attention deeper into the details! Now I see what Plasticman saw so quickly. Just goes to show what one needs to evaluate a piece. Having said that, what do you make of the transfer details overlapping the Gilding in the border in several places? Does that simply mean that it was applied during the same period and fired then or are separate firings possible? Lastly, is there a possibility that this is an English effort? I noticed that the floral decoration resembles Bow ware particularly in the outlining. Thank you again for the help!!!

Subject:Re: Qianglong period bowl?
Posted By: Bill H Sun, Oct 25, 2020

Sometimes unusually high kiln temperatures can cause transfers to float on the surface of the glaze. Mostly, I've noticed this in base markings wherein the characters have become distorted, but it also can happen elsewhere.

Bill H.

Subject:Re: Qianglong period bowl?
Posted By: Larry Mon, Oct 26, 2020

I agree with Bill H and plasticman. In my opinion this is a modern piece.
You would never see two identically rendered dogs like this on a genuine piece. Footrim is also stained.

I hope you didn't pay too much!

Subject:Re: Qianglong period bowl?
Posted By: Roger L Gelpey Wed, Oct 28, 2020

Actually a local expert (runs Ebay's "second opinion") agrees with you. His verdict was "high end special order" for sale in high end dept. store. Within last 50 years. As to cost I wish I could say I didn't...
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