Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries


Visitors' Forum

Asian Art  Forums - Detail List
Asian Art Forums

Message Listing by Date:
Message Index | Back | Post a New Message | Search | Private Mail | FAQ
Subject:Qianlong mark Sgraffito bowl
Posted By: Vicky Thu, Jan 02, 2020 IP: 2a02:c7d:da5e:300:11

Can anyone assist me with some information about the QIANLONG mark on this bowl, or any general information about the bowl? Much appreciated.







Subject:Re: Qianlong mark Sgraffito bowl
Posted By: OLiver Watson Sat, Jan 04, 2020

Hi This is very nice and I think you have an Imperial Qianlong bowl.The mark looks correct and lines up with the pattern and the enamels are correct and there is some wear on the gilded rim which has the soft look of genuine gilding.The footrim appears right with a slight iron edge to the inside of it.Congratulations this is worth a lot of money

Subject:Re: Qianlong mark Sgraffito bowl
Posted By: Vicky Sun, Jan 05, 2020

Thank you so much for the information Oliver. I had done some online research, which mostly came up with Daoguang marked Sgraffiato bowls. I found a few on Qianlong marked ones on a couple of the large auction house past sales sites, but could not be sure when making comparisons.

I wonder if you might be able to advise me on possible restoration work? Although the bowl is not chipped, cracked or have any hairlines, you might have noticed there are small patches of pink ground/enamel missing around the rim and on a few places around the body of the bowl. Do you think it might be possible to have these restored/colour filled without affecting the status/value of the bowl? If so, do you know who might be able to undertake this work without compromising the authenticity of the bowl?

Any advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Subject:Re: Qianlong mark Sgraffito bowl
Posted By: Mark Adams Sun, Jan 05, 2020

Hi Vicky,
Can you kindly provide further pictures from all sides?
[email protected]

Subject:Re: Qianlong mark Sgraffito bowl
Posted By: Viicky Mon, Jan 06, 2020

Yes Mark, please see further images.







Subject:Re: Qianlong mark Sgraffito bowl
Posted By: Vicky Sun, Jan 05, 2020

Hello Oliver

You seem like the man who can tell me about the subject depicted on my lovely Islamic bowl fragment, what is written, and when it was made. I have looked all over the internet and the nearest thing I could find was a reference to a fight between Rustam & Fulad Zereh. Does this seem possible?

please tell me to leave you alone if I am asking you for too much information. Thanks







Subject:Re: Qianlong mark Sgraffito bowl
Posted By: Mark Adams Wed, Jan 08, 2020

Thank you for the additional pictures.
I did take the liberty to ask a dear friend of mine (Giovanni) his opinion on your bowl.
He agreed with Oliver's post on principle, but could or would not commit to a definite period other than to state it was not modern or without further pictures /information etc.
This type of ware would warrant the opinion of others at sotheby's or one of the other big boys.
[email protected]

Subject:Re: Qianlong mark Sgraffito bowl
Posted By: OLiver Watson Mon, Jan 13, 2020

Hi Vicky,
I have handled many of these bowls over the years,it is genuine.My field for many years was later Imperial ceramics of which I had a large collection.you don't need to go to Sothebys,it is correct and do not get it repaired and remove the red paint please.It matters not.I would estimate this as worth approx $30-$40,000.A very similar one sold in Christies 2011 for U.S.$75,000.The Islamic piece is a bit of a mystery and I will get back to you on that.I originally thought Kutahya but it is a buff earthern ware body which does not jell so perhaps very early Iznik called Minai but could be wrong

Subject:Re: Qianlong mark Sgraffito bowl
Posted By: Vicky Tue, Jan 14, 2020

Thank you so much for your feedback Oliver. I am so very confused. Since we last communicated I took Mark's advice and sent images to Sotheby's and Bonhams for inspection. Bonhams did respond quickly and said they would need to examine in person. I went in this morning but unfortunately their lead specialist, who I had been contacted by, was abroad and so his assistant took a look. She felt that it was not Qianlong due to the cobalt blue internal lamps decoration, which she thought was 'not fine enough' for the period. Although she did say the weight was ok and the external decoration was very good. Any thoughts you have would be very welcome.
I just don't know what to do next. I promise not to get any work done on them though, as you advised.

Also thank you for having a think about my pottery fragment. I love it.


Subject:Re: Qianlong mark Sgraffito bowl
Posted By: Vicky Tue, Jan 14, 2020

Hello Mark, thank you for taking the time to show the images to your friend Giovanni. I have just sent a quick update posting with feedback about the bowl. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss and share your friend's thoughts. This forum is fantastic and full of friendly guidance and goodwill. It is great that so many people are taking out time to share their knowledge.

Subject:Re: Qianlong mark Sgraffito bowl
Posted By: OLiver Watson Tue, Jan 14, 2020

Hi Vicky,
Be very careful with so called experts in the major auction houses.Most are young and have an art history degree and have handled very few of these pieces,it is all book knowledge.Also they are not interested in taking one piece for auction these days.A good example is a pair of bowls which were supposedly Daoguang mark and period and belonged to a friend of mine.Curiously a number of other identical bowls popped up in England with supposedly wonderful provenance and his bowls which I and another well known published collector(Anthony Allen) were sure were fakes sold for $30,000.I believe that at least 10-20% of pieces offered by the major auction houses these days are fakes.Incidentally I have never seen any more of these bowls.The Chinese have a habit of putting out a few very good fakes(some not so good) and that is it,no more so the art world gets fooled once again.Unfortunately the great early European collectors are all dead though there may still be a few left.My suggestion is have a look at collections which come up for sale and check who the owner is or was .If an elderly collector try and contact them.Also if you live in London look out an older Chinese dealer who will probably help you.If he or she wants to buy it it is definitely right!.Take his or her advice as if they have been in the business for many years they will know.This bowl is too good to be a copy.If the weight is right so is the bowl as that is something they cannot duplicate as the clay is machine mixed and much denser these days.It could only be two things right or late Qing and it is not the latter that I can guarantee.It shows wear and the gilding is correct(it is a light gold not brassy isn't it? )I would be inclined to get in touch with Eldreds.They are in the U.S.A. but I have dealt with them for some time and they are good;cannot fault their descriptions;( Eldred is an older man possibly 60's 70's and it is a very old family business: that is if you are wishing to sell it.Forget Sothebys and Christies and Bonhams etc.I have no faith in them anymore.

Subject:Re: Qianlong mark Sgraffito bowl
Posted By: Vicky Wed, Jan 15, 2020

Thank you Oliver. You are so kind and generous with your knowledge. It has all been a bit helter skelter so your advice and clear experience is a huge reassurance for me. I plan to follow your guidance and seek some opinions from your suggested sources. I will get back to you and let you know how it goes. In the meantime, thank you over and over.

Subject:Re: Qianlong mark Sgraffito bowl
Posted By: Mark Adams Thu, Jan 16, 2020

Hi Vicky,
What area/region do you reside in, if I may ask?
[email protected]

Subject:Re: Qianlong mark Sgraffito bowl
Posted By: OLiver Watson Wed, Jan 15, 2020

Hi,just had a look at a copy(fake) and funnily enough the blue inside was much softer and tended to show more detail yet it was definitely not mark and period and did not sell.Also the ground was much brighter almost shiny which would suggest fake ( though some of the Daoguang ones are like that).I will stick with my opinion,I personally think the blue on the inside of your bowl is correct.

Subject:Re: Qianlong mark Sgraffito bowl
Posted By: OLiver Watson Tue, Jan 21, 2020

Hi Vicky,
The Islamic piece is quite possibly Nishapur(Persian) c 10thc A.D..The body is right.Have a look Google it and see what you think


Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries |