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Subject:Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Thierry Gaudin Fri, Aug 02, 2019 IP: 108.28.225.236

Can anyone help with the identity of the artist on these two porcelain plaques as well as title and date.Thanks in advance.







Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Bill H Sat, Aug 03, 2019

These both appear to have the signature of Republic of China-period Jingdezhen porcelain painter Zhang Zhitang (張志湯 - 1893-1971). The plaque at right appears to read down and across from the top right as:

(TITLE): 江南秀色 (Jiang nan Xiu se) -- 'Beautiful Jiangnan'

戊子年冲冬星江 (Wu zi nian chong dong xing jiang) -- 'The Wuzi year (1948) 'A rude winter traveling (at night) by river'

張志湯寫於珠山客次 (Zhang zhi tang xie yu zhu shan ke ci) -- 'Painted by Zhang Zhitang at the Zhushan Guesthouse'

(TITLE OF PLAQUE AT LEFT) 湖漬沱雨 (Hu zi tuo yu) Rain on flooded lakes and streams

(Probable Seal of 'Zhitang' on both plaques)


The link below has examples of the writing and signature of Zhang, as well as some details of his paintings. The translated introduction follows:

Zhang Zhitang's Works and Knowledge (1893 --- 1971):

Jiangxi Yuyuan native. Good at the famille rose landscape, and strong at flower & bird motif and animals. In the 5th year of the Republic of China (1916), he participated in the "Zhushan (Pearl Mountain) Art Research Society" organized by the "Eight Friends of Zhushan" and Wang Bu, Wang Dacang, and others from the "Art Research Society" and " Eight Friends of Zhushan". He organized the "Moon Circle" in the 1940s, and was influenced by Lang Shining in paintings, horse drawings, realistic images, vivid postures, and enjoying a reputation in Jingdezhen.

In my opinion, the plaques shown here by Thierry appear to exhibit some characteristics of Zhang Zhitang's painting style and calligraphy, However, I'm always more comfortable when Rat and other contributors with more comprehensive backgrounds in such Chinese arts cast their opinions.

Best regards,

Bill H.


URL Title :Zhang Zhitang


Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Thierry Gaudin Mon, Aug 05, 2019

Hi Bill!
Thanks very much for all the infos.

Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Thierry Gaudin Mon, Aug 05, 2019

I check the seal at Christie's,Sotheby's and Bonhams and it is the correct seal.

Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: rat Mon, Aug 05, 2019

Thanks for the compliment Bill H., but I think you and Mark have done all the homework here. I too want to see genuine examples of Zhang's work that relate more closely to these two plaques, as I'm not convinced what's posted online is stylistically close to Thierry's plaques.

Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Thierry Gaudin Wed, Aug 07, 2019

From Bonhams



Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Bill H Sat, Aug 03, 2019

Oops, in haste to answer, I missed a typo by the online translator in the name of Zhang Zhitang's birthplace, which is Wuyuan County (婺源县 - Wuyuan Xian), Jiangxi Province (a 'Y' was transposed for the 'W' at the front of Wuyuan),

Correcting it revealed a problem concerning another translation, since a river called the 'Xingjiang' (星江) flows through Wuyuan.

After checking online sources, including Sotheby's auction results, I surmised that Zhang used Xingjiang as a sobriquet derived from his hometown river. When I first found the name positioned at the end of the dateline, it had evoked the somewhat obscure definition 'To travel at night' derived from '星' (Xing - 'Star') in its ancient role as a navigational guidepoint.

Sorry 'bout that, :(

Bill H.

Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Mark Adams Sun, Aug 04, 2019

Nice pair of large plaques.
I side on caution as to whether these are really by said artist Zhang Zhitang or a later copy in his name.
The painting style is not IMO the same as said artist and differs from known example via Bonham's and Christie's.
The subject matter is in line with his work.
I an unable to determine if the calligraphy and seal mark are correct for said artist due primarily to low quality picture positing.
Still they are a impressive looking pair!
[email protected]

Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Thierry Gaudin Tue, Aug 06, 2019

Picture of the calligraphy and seal





Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Mark Adams Tue, Aug 06, 2019

Unfortunately the seal mark is the easiest part to copy.
Due to the high prices achieved by most masters of the republic period has led to the surge in reproducing said. Some are very good and thus have the added notion of being attributed to. Just to make matters worse students of these masters also produced high end tributes to their masters. Not to be confused with copies or fakes that you will see splashed across eBay.
In the end all one can do is to check and compare known examples. Carefully examine if the painting style, subject matter, style of calligraphy (very important!) and the seal stamps are correct. If each of the above gets a tick, then in all likelihood you have a genuine item. If not then either a tribute or worse a much later copy.
It is possible to buy authentic pieces that have been overlooked as attributes. I recently purchased a Wang Yeting plaque for a low price.
Of course you could send pictures to the major auction houses and try your luck.
Hope this helps you out.
[email protected]

Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Thierry Gaudin Fri, Aug 09, 2019

I have been trying to post the actual written text on the plaque three time and for some odd reason it fails.

Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Bill H Sat, Aug 10, 2019

Typically, you can't post an image when it's size (total pixel density) exceeds more than 99kb [But you can post three separate images of up to 99kb with each post].

I know that in a windows PC, you can usually select a picture image by clicking on its thumbnail, then hold the cursor over the selected thumbnail for a second to get information on its size. If that doesn't work for you, try a right- click on the thumbnail, then go to the bottom of the resulting menu and click on 'Properties'. You should find the size in the middle of the next item that comes up.

Of course you still need some form of photo-processing software to resize your images. Otherwise, you may be able to get a Cloud-based storage function that allows you to assign links that can be used in the forum to display stored photos.

Good luck,

Bill H.

Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Sameer Tuladhar Sun, Aug 11, 2019

We also noticed your image filenames contained brackets and long names:

date_and_author_(1).jpg
Zhang_Zhitang_(1893-1971)._Jingdezhen_Zhushan.Plaque_title

Please try removing the brackets and rename them with shorter filenames. And add a "jpg" extension to the second image as well.

Sameer
Forum Moderator.

Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Sameer Tuladhar Sun, Aug 11, 2019

Hi Bill,

We've increased our maximum image filesize to 500kb now.

Thank you for all your contributions.

Sameer
Forum Moderator.

Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Bill H Sun, Aug 11, 2019

Hi Sameer,

Thanks for the tip on new file size limits. That's the moral equivalent to getting a raise around here! :)

Bill H.

Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Thierry Gaudin Thu, Aug 08, 2019

The text of the plaque





Subject:Re: Porcelain plaque.To identify the name of the author and the date
Posted By: Thierry Gaudin Thu, Aug 15, 2019

Another try for the photo of the text






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