Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries


Visitors' Forum

Asian Art  Forums - Detail List
Asian Art Forums

Message Listing by Date:
Message Index | Back | Post a New Message | Search | Private Mail | FAQ
Subject:THE TRUE IMPERIAL RU WARE THE EMPEROR HUIZONG COMMISSIONED DURING THE N. SONG DYNASTY
Posted By: joseph sharon Sat, May 25, 2019 IP: 108.24.183.126

The pieces in my Ru/Ju ware collection were hidden away and Qianlong Emperor did
not have the ability to collect such pieces, the pieces he collected were from
wealthy merchant class pieces. I realize this will clear up some of the questions
about the Ru/Ju Kiln wares and Emperor Huizong reign. This is very important
that the truth be told. For many years everyone had to rely on the pieces that
are in the Qianlong Emperors collection, those pieces are very nice but they are
not the real Imperial Ru/Ju ware that Emperor Huizong commissioned the
Ru/Ju Kiln to produce for himself and his court.

The Ru/Ju Kiln produced three types of wares. The first wares were being sold
to the wealthy merchant class and these wares didn't have the fire gilded bands
and didn't have crushed agate stone in the glaze. Any wares that had firing
flaws would be sold to the population at a much cheaper price. The second wares
they produced were the tribute wares that were given to the Emperor and his court as
tribute. All these wares have the fire gilded bands that are around the rim and base and
sometimes only the rim. These bands have extensive layered cuprite and malachite
corrosion that only occurs in nature and can't be faked. (From the book Copper and
bronze in art by David Scott The existence of malachite formation over a layer of
cuprite is supported by analytical and metallographic studies, is a good indication
of the authenticity of an artifact.) This is more reliable than a TL test.These
tribute wares had several colors and many forms and didn't have crushed agate in
the glaze, they all were glazed on the foot rings and have spur marks. One of
the tribute pieces is marked Feng Wang a tribute to the Emperor, these are not the
commissioned pieces because the emperor would never give tribute to himself. The
third wares they produced were the Imperial wares that Emperor Huizong commissioned
the Ru/Ju Kiln to produce for him and his court,

They produced two types of the imperial wares that were made for Emperor Huizong
and his court. Emperor Huizong was unhappy with all the opulent tribute
wares he was receiving from several kilns and also the Ru/Ju Kiln opulent tribute
wares. These tribute wares were too flamboyant with the fire gilded bands
and there opulent forms and colors. Emperor Huizong was an artist and a
modest man and he saw beauty in simplicity. Emperor Huizong had contact with the
Korean Koryo Dynasty celadon wares because the color he chose and glaze is
similar to the Koryo celadon wares. Emperor Huizong decided to commission
the Ru/Ju Kiln because they were producing the finest wares.The Imperial commissioned
wares are very special because they were the first wares ever commissioned by
Emperor Huizong and made exclusively for the Emperor and his court. There was two separate
groups of Imperial commissioned Ru wares by Emperor Huizong, the first group of
wares are very modest and refined, the second group the wares are very elegant
and luxurious. Both groups of wares you can see traces of agate flakes in the glaze
with a 20x power loupe under the right lighting. The first Imperial wares are
not opulent like the merchant or tribute wares they are very understated and have
modest and refined forms with only one color Celadon, and they have some texture
from the crushed agate stone that was put into their mix. Agate melts at 2912
degrees F and the Song dynasty kilns temperature only reached 1250 degrees F
at best, so this is a fallacy that the crushed agate melted in the glaze, also
it would be very difficult to crush agate into a complete powder this is
why you can clearly see traces of the agate stone in the glaze using a 20x
loupe or better. The Prototypes the foot rings were glazed and you could see spur
marks, Emperor Huizong didn't like the spur marks so he requested they remove
them, so they stopped glazing the foot rings and the final version was fired
flat in the kiln. Many have marks scratched on the bases like Feng Hua
I believe this is a tribute for China and also other marks. All of the first
imperial wares have cracked ice crackle in the glaze. Emperor Huizong had a vision
to produce wares that would be very understated, refined, and modest and
look like they were formed from jade stone. It didn't matter if a piece had
flaws, because each piece has its own character. Any flawed pieces would be
distributed to the court and no pieces were sold to anyone other than the court.

The Emperor was a modest man and saw each piece as individual piece, and
even if they had flaws, he saw beauty. Almost like human beings with all
their flaws, they are beautiful. It is very apparent that Emperor Huizong
worked very closely with the Ru/Ju Kiln to develop these first Imperial wares.
The Ru/Ju Kiln certainly fulfilled Emperor Huizong's vision and produced
these wonderful modest wares exclusively for himself and his Court. The wares
are very important because they are the first wares ever commissioned by any
Emperor in China's history. After awhile many of Emperor Huizong's court wanted
finer wares from the Ru Kiln, so the Emperor ordered the Ru kiln to produce
the second Imperial wares. The second Imperial wares Huizong commissioned are
not modest they are very elegant, luxurious and beautiful with very rich
glaze. Both the first and second imperial wares have crushed agate in the glaze and
both are not glazed on the foot rings they were fired flat in the kiln. He wanted the
best wares possible for his court, and he wanted the Ru Kiln to produce the finest
wares ever produced, more refined wares then the Korean Koyro Dynasty wares. I have
attached photos of two Vases of the second commissioned Ru wares that have fire
gilded bands that clearly show the cuprite and malachite corrosion that proves these
wares are ancient. Also I have attached photos that you can see on the first
Imperial Ru ware Vase they didn't crush the agate stone enough, the glaze has
tiny holes caused by the agate, the foot ring you can see a drip of glaze that has
chips of agate. All of this is clear conclusive evidence that these are the
true first and second Imperial Ru wares that Emperor Huizong developed and
commissioned the Ru/Ju Kiln to produce for him and his court.

First three photos are the true Imperial Ru ware that Emperor Huizong commissioned
the Ru Kiln to produce for Himself and his Court exclusively during the Northern Song
Dynasty. The first picture is from the first wares Emperor Huizong commissioned which
are very simplistic, modest, and understated This vase clearly shows the
crushed agate in the glaze and the unglazed foot ring. Emperor Huizong
saw beauty in simplicity and he saw each of these piece as an individual
work of art regardless if they had any flaws..

The second photo is from the second Imperial wares that Emperor Huizong
commissioned the Ru Kiln to produce for himself and his court. Those in
his court requested the Emperor to commission the Ru Kiln to produce the
finest wares possible and they sure did. These wares are not modest they are very
elegant, luxurious and beautiful with very rich glaze these are the most
beautiful celadon pieces China ever produce. This vase has Firer gilded bands over
copper and they clearly show the cuprite and malachite corrosion
that proves they are ancient wares. Also shows agate in the glaze and
they did not glaze the foot ring and there is no crackle in this glaze.

The Third photo is from the second wares Huizong commissioned, this piece
has firer gilded over silver band that is very corroded with thick black
corrosion where the Gild has worn , you can clearly see the crushed agate
in the glaze with a loupe. The foot ring is not glazed and there is very
minor crackle in the glaze.








Link :chinesemasterpieces


Subject:Re: THE TRUE IMPERIAL RU WARE THE EMPEROR HUIZONG COMMISSIONED DURING THE N. SONG DYNASTY
Posted By: Jonathan Sat, May 25, 2019

???? What is the Point of this long post.

Subject:Re: THE TRUE IMPERIAL RU WARE THE EMPEROR HUIZONG COMMISSIONED DURING THE N. SONG DYNASTY
Posted By: rat Tue, May 28, 2019

To sell 21st century objects as rare northern Song objects.

No everyone has the same approach as "here is a bad photo, probably upside down, of something I found in a thrift store, please tell me what it is so that I can sell it for millions and keep ALL THE MONEY"

Subject:Re: THE TRUE IMPERIAL RU WARE THE EMPEROR HUIZONG COMMISSIONED DURING THE N. SONG DYNASTY
Posted By: Thomas Mezei Tue, May 28, 2019

Thank you very much - it was an enjoyable and very interesting read, pity the "chinesemasterpieces"link doesn't work.

Subject:Re: THE TRUE IMPERIAL RU WARE THE EMPEROR HUIZONG COMMISSIONED DURING THE N. SONG DYNASTY
Posted By: rat Tue, May 28, 2019

Here are some videos, apparently featuring the gentleman who submitted the initial post. I don't believe that any of the items in the videos I've skimmed through are genuinely Song, Ming, or Qing as claimed, though he seems quite certain that they are, and that leading museums and auction houses are committing fraud by not recognizing his assertions as correct.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9TN3G8Jc56eSIGwHnK9lyQ

If you care to search through previous posts on this site, you will find several lengthy threads on his views about his objects, as well as the views of skeptics.

Subject:Re: THE TRUE IMPERIAL RU WARE THE EMPEROR HUIZONG COMMISSIONED DURING THE N. SONG DYNASTY
Posted By: Larry Tue, May 28, 2019

The OP messed up the link when they posted their thread. Luckily ;-) I recognized the problem and was able to cut and paste some of the URL to look at the site.


The site is quite large and entertaining in a way, but IMHO much like other sites obsessed with slagging off the major auction houses, a little bit on the bitter side.
Items are nice quality and probably cost the OP a pretty penny ...hard to believe the stuff is old though, despite the microscope photos ...


the site is at www.chinesemasterpieces.com


Subject:Re: THE TRUE IMPERIAL RU WARE THE EMPEROR HUIZONG COMMISSIONED DURING THE N. SONG DYNASTY
Posted By: joseph sharon Tue, May 28, 2019

additional photos of the three Ru pieces.







Subject:Re: THE TRUE IMPERIAL RU WARE THE EMPEROR HUIZONG COMMISSIONED DURING THE N. SONG DYNASTY
Posted By: joseph sharon Wed, May 29, 2019

It’s fine to be skeptical, but to criticize and pass judgement without any explanation why something is not what it is presented to be just shows a lack of knowledge about the subject. I don’t hide behind a screen name I put everything on the table. I don’t like bashing Museums, Auction Houses or the crony dealers but the corruption is too deep, they control the narrative and market place . Since China has open up and many very fine pieces that have been hidden away have reach the market place. The cabal that is controlling the market are afraid of the criticism and the law suits that may come to bare from collectors that have purchased pieces that have been totally misrepresented by them. Often stated that there is less than 100 pieces of Ru ware that survived, nothing could be further from the truth. The pieces they have catalogued are not Imperial pieces they are merchant wares that were sold to the wealthy merchants only the Imperial wares are rare. They did not use crushed agate in any merchant wares, they say that the agate melted in the glaze because it can’t been seen in their recored wares. Ancient writings about Ru ware state crushed agate was used in the glaze . Only Imperial Ru ware has agate in the glaze and it can be seen with a 20x loupe. My collection proves that everything written about Ru wares needs to be revised. I welcome any expert in Ru ware to sit down with me an examine my collection, so far no one has come forward. They could care less about the historic significance of the most important wares China ever produced Ru Ware. The microscopic photos prove that the pieces are ancient wares, no one can reproduce the cup-rite and malachite corrosion that’s on the fire gilded bands. It is impossible to duplicate these wares the materials, knowledge, skill, spirit required is completely lost in time. Any attempts to reproduce Ru ware would stick out like a sore thumb.

Subject:Re: THE TRUE IMPERIAL RU WARE THE EMPEROR HUIZONG COMMISSIONED DURING THE N. SONG DYNASTY
Posted By: joseph sharon Tue, May 28, 2019

Additional photos fo Three Ru Ware pieces








Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries |