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Subject:I need help with jadeite coloration
Posted By: Pavel Sun, Jan 06, 2019 IP: 91.122.15.30

I understand that this is the art oriented forum, but it is safe to assume that you can't love Chinese culture and do not love jades.

So, it is easy to put a price tag on imperial green jadeite but what about more humble colors?
Where i can research what colors are more popular?
Links on massive jade shops with adequate pricing are also welcomed.

I am asking that because quite recently i came in possession of an unusual jadeite boulder and after i made some pendants from it i was left high and dry in terms of what to do next.

Here are the examples and any opinion about them would be gratefully accepted.
Do not tell this is not jadeite thou. All necessary tests were professionally conducted and the only next step available is to receive a lab certificate on them. I am considering that, but, certificates are expensive (in fact, to get one for jadeite piece you have to pay as for two diamonds)and therefore, i do not want to invest any money if those are just "fun" colors





Subject:Re: I need help with jadeite coloration
Posted By: Mark Adams Tue, Jan 08, 2019

Hi I am unsure of what it is you are seeking answers to?
If you are asking about value and or appraisal and whether this item you have is worth the time and trouble to obtain a certificate then my answer is no it is not worth the hassle etc.
Regards
Mark

Subject:Re: I need help with jadeite coloration
Posted By: Ernest Wilhelm Thu, Jan 10, 2019

Never mind what you claim, the second picture shows that it is not any type of Jade.
Ernest

Subject:Re: I need help with jadeite coloration
Posted By: Pavel Sat, Jan 12, 2019

"Never mind what you claim, the second picture shows that it is not any type of Jade.
Ernest "

Brown with milky veins is typical for jadeite. Inclusions in the middle ARE unusual but not impossible.

Were i am welcoming your denial as any other honest opinion, the question was more about "are those unusual enough to be collectible".

"Shall i get a lab certificate" question is solely depends on potential value of this uncommon, opal like scenery in a piece of jadeite.


Subject:Where is the jade boulder?
Posted By: Super Thu, Jan 24, 2019

Hi, Pavel:

Thanks for sharing pictures of your jades with us.
Do not get upset with others' opinions rendered on your jade pieces if you decide to post them for others' critique. First of all, to try to evaluate jade items based on a few low-resolution pictures that were not taken under sunlight or natural light is simply unrealistic; Secondly, beauty of any collectibles including jade pieces is in the eyes of the beholder; Thirdly, even jade experts often disagree with each other.
Therefore, you really should not get upset but rather you should post the reasons you believe these are made of jadeite and they are beautiful enough to convince yourself that you should spend more money to pursue it further.

At one time I have been studying jade material including jadeite which was labeled as "hard jade" or fei cui in China while Nephrite was labeled as "soft jade" even though the hardness of some of the nephrite are as hard as that of jadeite. It is interesting that jadeite was not really considered as jade until the middle Qing dynasty. Therefore if somebody is trying to sell you an authentic Ming dynasty jadeite piece, you should stay far away from it. Also very interesting, there had been jadeite mines found all over the world, recently there were news about jadeite being found in Panama or at California, USA but I had yet been able to confirm this or obtain a sample from these two places for my study. The problem is this, I believe, just because if jadeite may be found in some areas, but the material may not be suitable for "carving". Example, nephrite was actually being found and mined during the late 60s and early 70s in Taiwan but when attempted to make them into carvings, the material was shattered until later a special technique was invented for making jewelries/carvings. But soon all of the nephrite mines were exhausted and today it was quite difficult to locate or confirm items that were made of Taiwan nephrite.

I was kind of confused after reading your post with two pictures - with one pendant on top of a slab in each picture because I did not see anything close to a "jadeite boulder" mentioned in your message, only a slab under each of them. My idea of a jade boulder would be a pretty large piece of raw jade like those posted in this link:
https://www.google.com/search?q=jade+boulder&client=firefox-b-1-ab&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=FZ5dnVs1-vnozM%252CaFwZGS5f2qWEvM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kRigzFirjXFp5jxSfnUEXzCU6nrMw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwidoIrP4obgAhVQJKwKHTtqBjAQ_h0wHXoECAMQCg&biw=1920&bih=937#imgrc=FZ5dnVs1-vnozM:

Can you post pictures of your jadeite boulder?

There are indeed many different color of jadeite, much more than that of nephrite. My father used to collect jadeite pendants with unusual colors. Unfortunately, most Chinese still like jadeite with apple green or grandmother green, lately due to extinction of really nice jadeite, they started promoting "ice" jadeite (translucent). In short, unusual color jadeite pendants may not fetch high prices, but unusual and nice jade boulders would. Also, I am not sure too many Chinese will be crazy about any jade pendants especially jadeite ones that are white color (a funeral color) and full of inclusions. No pun intended.

I like the color and appearance of the "jadeite" pendant in your first picture much better than the one in your second picture. I do not like the shapes of either one, they are too bulky, IMHO.
I personally would not buy or wear either one. Again, no pun intended, just give you my honest opinion.

Therefore, please let us know if you may post a picture of your "jadeite boulder". Thank you.

Super



Subject:Re: Where is the jade boulder?
Posted By: Pavel Sat, Jan 26, 2019

Well, that was the most touching response i ever received in any discussion. I will do my best to address each of the topics mentioned in it.

Starting with pictures; it is worth to mention that they have to be squeezed into this post-board limitation. As for my belief that this is a jadeite jade pieces, it was quite shattered withing the last weeks. Everyone is skeptical about inclusions.

These pendants have jadeite hardness (between 6 and 7, closer to 7) and they also produce this glassy "clank" sound when collided with each-other. Hopefully, i will do specific gravity and acid tests soon.

I am working with nephrite jade for quite a while and it is fair to say that i can contribute a several hours of angry murmuring into this topic. The ugly truth is: most of nephrite is suitable for carving. But, it is expensive and time consuming if you extracting it carefully. Most of the jade miners are using dynamite in their work and this is fatal for nephrite integrity.
Unfortunately, most of the jade carvers and jewelry makers are impregnating their product with polymer compound so this is not a problem for them. ( I do believe that this abominable process is what you called a "special technique" )

Anyway, i posses nephrite pieces with cracks naturally colored in quite a tomb jade fashion. I can do Ming's jades myself if i will want to.


"Boulder" was a bit of exaggeration i suppose. Here it is; the brown part is from its bottom, celadon is from the upper half (i posted an additional photo) and vivid blue top is several millimeters deep only.

These opal like inclusions are exactly what crushed my belief that this is jadeite. If my future test will prove 100% that this is jadeite this pendant will instantly become a gemological curiosity.

As for the form factor you mentioned, i fully understand that this unconventional shape is repelling for a generic jade lover. But, one humble man can't compete with the well oiled jade cabochons and jade carving industry. I have my specific niche of clients, this is my recognizable style.

Once again, the time and efforts you invested in your response are truly appreciated.





Subject:Re: Where is the jade boulder?
Posted By: Super Sun, Feb 03, 2019

Hi,Pavel:

Thank you very much for sharing picture of your jade boulder with us. I believe it has the chance of being jadeite or may be jadeite mixed with some other rocks? If you would test its specific gravity it may probably tell you more. I once has a very large glass-looking frog sitting on a custom-made wood holder. The frog itself weighs more than 1 kg and it looks like it was made of glass but I could not scratch it with a knife or with my MOH hardness picks of either 6 or 7. Upon testing its S.G., it was found to be around 3.2, a bit low for commonly seen jadeite. A very experienced jade collector in this forum told me it was made of "Thai jadeite". The texture of your boulder looks almost similar to that of some of the green jasper I had seen. Once an eBay rock dealer sent me a piece of dark green rock found in his backyard of his house and it looks like nephrite, feels like nephrite, could not be scratched but only found to be green jasper after I tested its S.G. I believe your boulder has to be very hard and its texture does look similar to jasper but not its color. It actually was not unusual to see inclusions in some jadeite. I still cannot quite figure out the TRUE color of this boulder. Again, thanks for sharing your insight and expertise on jade with us. We all can learn from you. Please continue to share your thoughts and future developments on this fascinating jade boulder with us jade lovers. Thank you very much,
Super.

Subject:Re: Where is the jade boulder?
Posted By: Pavel Tue, Feb 05, 2019

Ok, well. The fruits of knowledge are often sour.
I was mislead at the beginning but your kind response ( and many of not that kind but also motivating) have prompted me to learn how to perform gravity tests.

Aaaand, with hardness between 6.5 and 7, the pendants on pictures are showing somewhat 2.6, 2.7 sg. Not to mention that i bought 38% HCL to observe how it do nothing on top of them.

So, i name it chalcedony and call it a day.

I guess it is true that jade lovers can learn from me but only because of the fact that failure is the greatest teacher.

Here are some fun nephrite boulders i gathered to my spring working season. Thank you very much for your dedicated answers.



Subject:Re: Where is the jade boulder?
Posted By: John Rohrer Wed, Feb 06, 2019

Pavel, I understand your fascination with hardstones
and jade. Not sure what tests you used to find
your specific gravity measurement but glad you
did the test.
Several years ago I offered a methodology
for testing specific gravity. Here's a link
https://www.asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=97340

Subject:Re: Where is the jade boulder?
Posted By: Pavel Thu, Feb 07, 2019

I done it this way

1. Turn on power and the scale should "zero" itself.
2. Weigh the dry mineral specimen and record the weight.
3. Place the water-filled container (filled with water enough to submerge the specimen) on the scale and "zero" it out. On small cups of water, suspend the paperclip in the water (not touching the sides or bottom) before zeroing the scale.
4. Suspend the specimen from the paperclip in the water, but not touching the bottom or sides and record the weight reading.
5. Divide the first (dry) weight by the second (suspended in water) weight and you get the specific gravity.


But after visiting your link i done it the way you suggested as well and results are 2,56 - 2,65.

I tested this piece of jadeite (on picture) and got 3,43 so i suppose my numbers are correct. Thank you for sharing the link to methodology you suggested, i will do sg tests that way from now on.



Subject:Scale using to measure S.G.
Posted By: Super Fri, Feb 08, 2019

From past measuring the S.G. of jade carvings, jade slabs, jade rocks, etc., I found that the accuracy of the scales used was critical in obtaining accurate S.G. I myself like to use the Pesola spring scales that were made in Switzerland:

https://www.pesola.com/E/spring-scale/light-line.htm

For smaller jade pendants and carvings, I found the 100 g scale very useful. For bigger slabs, I will go to either 500 g or 1000g and for existing large pieces I will use their Macro Line scale (5 kg, 10 kg, etc.) I found that their prices are very reasonable and are probably the best spring scales available out there.



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