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Subject:chinese vase age help please
Posted By: yurike Sun, Oct 08, 2017 IP:

Good evening..
I just purchased this vase. My decision to purchase since this vase is unmarked on the base was due to artistic skill and handling,subject matter,and just a feeling that this was a good find. I am hoping to get forum input on age and possibly translation of any of the cartouches or other writing. My feeling on age was at least Republic possibly even Guangxu or Tongzhi. Vase is 19" tall with lid, almost 24" in circumference at it's widest. I will add more pictures tomorrow. Thank you for any assistance with age or translations.

Subject:Re: chinese vase age help please
Posted By: yurike Mon, Oct 09, 2017

More pics of cartouches with writing and depictions on the vase.

Subject:Re: chinese vase age help please
Posted By: Bokaba Mon, Oct 09, 2017

I would say maybe late Republic at the earliest. This is definitely 20th Century due to the "snow" white glaze that only existed in the 20th Century (and briefly during the Yongzheng period). This looks like a 20th Century copy of a famille rose covered urn (usually part of a garniture set of 5) of the late 19th Century. The base is too clean and has no firing errors, which would be uncommon for late Qing. In my opinion, this vase is likely mid-20th Century.


Subject:Re: chinese vase age help please
Posted By: mikeoz Tue, Oct 10, 2017

Why has Bokaba not commented on the poetic inscriptions? They are not Chinese characters, just made-up squiggles that look like they could be characters.

I cannot understand why someone would go to so much research, trouble and time to create such an object. They obviously have the talent to make reasonable facsimiles of real characters, yet they spent time and energy creating nonsense.

Subject:Re: chinese vase age help please
Posted By: Bokaba Thu, Oct 12, 2017

I missed the characters (I don't think the enlargements were posted until after I commented). My first thought is that the cartouches were added later, but they would have to be re-fired, which would have ruined the overglaze figures and gold decoration. So, in light of the characters, I think this piece is probably a new fake or possibly a piece of chinoiserie--porcelain made in the Chinese style in Europe.


Subject:Re: chinese vase age help please
Posted By: JLim Thu, Oct 12, 2017

Dear Mike

I was wondering the same thing. It is almost like a theatrical prop designed to look like a Chinese vase from a distance. We have had at least two instances on this forum of theatrical prop vases from Hollywood, with gibberish writing, being mistaken for the real thing.

Yet the butterflies around the neck look so convincingly Chinese - like some Guangxu era porcelains - and the figures and their expressions are also so much in the Chinese style. This is in contrast to the prop vases mentioned above, which looked not at all Chinese.

It is almost like the maker knew the object was to be exported to a country where they couldn't read Chinese? Or the maker was illiterate? Or could not find a suitable poem but was enthused to create a calligraphic vase anyway?

Kind regards

Subject:Re: chinese vase age help please
Posted By: Bill H Fri, Oct 13, 2017

Don't forget the usual suspects in France (Samson, Chantilly, Bayeux) and England (mainly Worcester for polychrome I think). Here's a broken-strap handled cup I've had for about 15 years and tend to think is 19th century, because the decoration mimics Chinese export patterns of that time. However, I'm still on the fence as to who made it. My leaning is a bit toward Samson, because the porcelain has a Limoges whiteness, and the cup appears from its slightly irregular shape possibly to have been custom-made, something Samson was known for. In any event, this European form of cup was not produced in China as far as I know.


Bill H.

Subject:Re: chinese vase age help please
Posted By: yurike Fri, Oct 13, 2017

Thank you for your replies. I bought this after seeing the handling of the glazes and artistic quality. It does not have the typical heavy thick muddy glazes that the later fakes or attempts have, making me think it may be an earlier Republic era vase. So maybe not such a good buy, not old, but very nice looking, skillfully done, and confusing to figure out.

Subject:Re: chinese vase age help please
Posted By: JLim Sun, Oct 22, 2017

To all

Poking around looking for comparable butterflies, I came across the below pictured object. Unfortunately Pinterest will not permit me to enlarge the picture, but it is very plainly of the same type of object as Yurike's vase. Look in particular at the angry looking warrior to the right with his blue sleeves and purple armour.

Even at this distance, it seems like the "calligraphy" might well be the same repetitious gibberish as on the vase.

I would now classify this as some sort of Canton Famille Rose or possibly a European copy? The ludicrous rose finial on the top makes me think it is either very modern, or that some European got creative with the idea of Famille "Rose". At any rate, although Pinterest describes this as 19th century the general feel of the porcelain is that it is too white to be antique.

Kind regards
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