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Hello,
Please excuse me,
I am looking for as much information as I can find on chinese bronzes made during the Ming dynasty by a workshop called "Ching Shoo Lou "
or "Qing Shu liu" (don't know correct spelling)
It was told to me this was run by an official named "wu,Bon Chow"?
I cant seem to find anything about this shop or the man on the internet. If someone would know some history in depth, I would be greatly appreciative. Also, I would be interested in any publications that would show the workshop seal.
Thank you, Stephan

don't know much about bronzes but you might consult philip hu's new catalog on later chinese bronzes, to which robery mowry contributed. paul moss in london also has some familiarity with bronzes of this period, and there's a more general book by rose kerr on later chinese bronzes that may be of some help too.

I can look it up if you post a picture of the Chinese characters. It is hard to tell which characters based on info you were giving.

Hello,
I am sorry, I totally forgot about this forum posting.
I finally found out that answer to my question.

The name of the man I was asking about is
"Wu Bang Zuo" and the name of his private label is
"Qin Shu Lu".

I still have a question as to what an original Xuande censer seal of "Qin Shu Lu" looks like.

Here's the seal on my censer. See attachment.

Thank you so much for your help.
PS, I am interested in finding books showing genuine Xuande pieces. If anyone could help, I would be appreciative.

Here is the mark and
a good book on Xuande censers by Taiwan national museum of art.

Can you please post some pictures of your piece?

Wow, Thank you.
Here are some pictures.
Please note: When you look at bottom, the feet are gold capped about 1/8 thick or so.

More photos coming.

Here are some more photos. Thank You, St

Your censer is an earlier piece, before 19th c. It will be very difficult give a more specific date as this mark is wildly copied during Qing dynasty just like the Xudeng marked censers. It looks like your piece is polished some time ago and it lost its patina.


I am not aware of the gold capped feet technique. It is hard to tell in your picture.

It is a very nice piece!

KK,
And thank you for your comments.
Apart from what you said, I was curious to see a picture of the caption beside the seals you showed.
Can you take a picture of that?

Oh, I just need to clear myself by the comment I made having to do with the feet being capped.

I suppose capped is an American term in antiques.

In reality when the metal is poured, the gold settled to the lowest point being it is heavier. Thus, the feet are mostly gold and the further up the pot you go the less gold is present. This is easily seen when the pot is in hand.

The mark as you said has been wildly copied, but I have noticed there are different “seal script” styles. I have also noticed there are some seals which appear sloppy and some artistic. This should make it easy to identify the maker if any are out there to compare.

Thank you, Stephen

Today It is near impossible to tell which are the original censer by "Wu Bang Zuo" weather imperial or private studio mark (Xuande lianzhi or "Qin Shu Lu”). There was a Xuande bronze exhibition at Suzhou museum about two month ago, They present 50+ censers as Xuande style censers and the museum did not try to give individually date.


On the other hand, most of the 19th or early 20th century pieces are easy to tell because their craftsmanship is terrible.

The above picture is from the book by national museum in Taipei,Taiwan, so I can’t show you the bottom of this censer. National museum in Taipei probably has the best collection of the original censers because they came directly from the Ming and Qing imperial court.


Want to see 100+ “Qin Shu Lu” marks, here you go:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%E7%90%B4%E4%B9%A6%E4%BE%A3&ndsp=18&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&start=10&sa=N

KK,
Thank you for the information.
The last few weeks I have been searching google with the "qin shu lu" characters and "wu bang zuo" characters in Chinese language and have found very few genuine private label works.
However I have found a few that have been very helpful. Thank You, Stephen

Hello,
Once more I am back to share informaton I have found. The picture I am posting is of a genuine "Wu Bangzuo" seal of Qin Shu Lu”. This piece is in a museum in China. I think the name of the book is Da Ming Xuande .... not sure about the rest. Page 106.
Enjoy,

The mark itself will not able to give you enough information on dating this piece. The writing style and brushwork quality can give cue of date but not able to prove it is Ming or as original Xuande period. The design (shape), bronze alloy, wear and patina may give you more help.

We don’t know enough about the original Xuande censers today, so it ‘s near impossible to say which is the real deal. (you can read more about this if you goggle in Chinese) For all these dealers who claimed they have real Xuande censers for sale, well, it's just their opinions.

“The gold and bronze alloy from the Ming palace fire” story is a myth, not real. And gold don’t settle to the bottom in gold alloy as you seem in 18K jewelry. There are no gold in your censer or 99% of Ming and Qing Censers (except gilded piece). Your censer is likely made from bronze and zine. Fengmotong (风磨铜) is simply is romantic term for “brass” 黄铜 ” and has not gold or silver in it.

kk

Dear KK,
Thank you for your reply.
I understand through a Chinese page that there were firstly the Xuande censers that were made for the court and shrines (around 3000 in number).
Also I understood that Mr. Wu BangZuo made some private casting censers during this time (Xuande era) for aristocrats and wealthy people for donations. Then after the court decided no more would be made, Wu Bangzuo continued making copies of the Xuande censers after this famous period.
Is this correct, if not , do you know history you could share?

Did you mean in your statement that there was no gold added in Court censers or Wu Bangzuo censers, or neither? (Not talking about gilded pieces.)



Thank you for your previous reply. There was some interesting info and I appreciate you responses, Stephen

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